Where's the trademark in the original post?
sakicfan84 said:
If anyone is saying that, they'd be an idiot. From Take-Two's 2008 10-K: "Our latest iteration in the Grand Theft Auto series, Grand Theft Auto IV , was released on the PS3 and Xbox 360 platforms in the second quarter of fiscal 2008. For the years ended October 31, 2008, 2007 and 2006, our Grand Theft Auto titles accounted for 46.2%, 13.1% and 22.4% of our total net revenue, respectively. No other products accounted for more than 10% of our revenue for the year ended October 31, 2008." "We are dependent on the future success of our Grand Theft Auto products and we must continue to publish "hit" titles or sequels to such"hit" titles in order to compete successfully in our industry." If the game accounted for over 40% of their annual revenue despite being out for only six months of that period, one would have to imagine it was insanely profitable. They slobber all of the Grand Theft Auto series in their annual report...it's their bread and butter, and they know it. The release of GTA 4 was definitely the leading factor in the company actually posting profits for a year.
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People
I was not saying that GTA IV did not make Take Two money.
I was saying that the profits from Carnival Games served as bridge financing so it could complete GTA IV.
From the 10-K: "We are dependent on the future success of our Grand Theft Auto products and we must continue to publish "hit" titles or sequels to such"hit" titles in order to compete successfully in our industry."
Carnival Games Mini-Golf anyone?
Mike from Morgantown
PS -- I am not so daft to think that a game selling 12M does not make more money than one selling 3M.
 I am Mario.I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble. Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492 NNID: Mike_INTV |
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HappySquirriel said: Well, being that GTA 4 has only sold 10 Million copies on the PS3 and XBox 360 after a full year I don't see how they could possibly approach 15 million copies sold ... At the same time Wii Fit has almost sold 17 Million units and sells over 200,000 every week, and Mario Kart Wii has sold amost 15 Million units and sells over 100,000 per week, so it is obvious that the high end sales potential on the HD consoles is not better than the Wii.
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Yeah, but no third party has come close to being able to achieve those type of numbers. At this point, I'm not sure there is any reason to think that one would be able to. The sales numbers of Nintendo games seem like they don't really relate to the sales of third party games, and I don't think it's fair to use them to build sales expectations or hypothetical sales numbers.
The ceiling so far for a third party game is around 7 million...for a game that has Mario in the title. The next closest third party game is at around 4 million. Those numbers are a far cry from being anywhere near the "high end sales potential" you are talking about. Two third party games on the 360 are at 7 million mark (without Mario in the title BTW), so I think you can make the argument that the actual sales potential is about the same for third party games on the 360 and the Wii. The 360 also has about 20 more million sellers from third parties than does the Wii. Sales potential involves the expected number of a product that the company expects to be able to sell...I doubt there is any publisher listing their sales potential for a Wii game anywhere near that of the Nintendo developed games.
HappySqurriel said:
| Impulsivity said: On one hand this is true, HD games DO indeed cost more, but on the other hand the upside potential is just enormous. |
Well, being that GTA 4 has only sold 10 Million copies on the PS3 and XBox 360 after a full year I don't see how they could possibly approach 15 million copies sold ... At the same time Wii Fit has almost sold 17 Million units and sells over 200,000 every week, and Mario Kart Wii has sold amost 15 Million units and sells over 100,000 per week, so it is obvious that the high end sales potential on the HD consoles is not better than the Wii.
Take2 losses say hi! , http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/take-two-losses-climb-to-USD50-million , looks like its was very profitable to make GTA 4. I predict that they will make lots of dlc for GTA 4, because alone its not really making enough profit.
| Impulsivity said:
The HD gaming thing is indeed a high stakes game, much like the movie industry. All HD game devs need to do is adapt to the new paradigm. Maybe instead of a game a month it should be 4 games a year of higher quality (and thus higher sales potential). The cream still rises, its just that making foam has gotten more expensive. |
The business model that the videogame industry is based on depends on break out successes to pay for smaller niche titles ... The problem with the HD consoles is that the massive successes (like Grand Theft Auto 4) do not make enough money to recover the losses from unsuccessful games.
If game developers followed your pattern of producing less games the industry would rapidly collapse ... While many gamers only care about FPS, Racing and Sports games the loss of variety would alienate the majority of gamers and they would find other things to do with their time. I personally believe that developers need to realize that advanced graphics are not a selling feature to most people, and they need to produce games with graphics at a level that can be justified by its eventual sales.
Thing is that 'true' gamers on consoles aren't interested in anything but graphics. Anyway you are right. Developers are to blaim for this current situation as they have been adding nothing but graphical glamour( and actually decreasing everything else -.-) for games. How can we break this downward spiral? Are casual games answer for this problem? I would like to also add that would you rather play russian roulette with your life or poker with you pocket change? :)
(Well, not really a good example, because some casual games have made more money than most of 'hc' games.)
| Impulsivity said:
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Your opinion is not the same thing as a fact
I love wii and ideas behind it! I might never own one, but its exactly what consoles should be.
The Wii was sold out for more than a year, is selling at a rate similar to the PS2, and has outsold the PS3 and XBox 360 combined since it launched ... On top of this Wii owners are buying games at a similar rate to PS3 and XBox 360 owners (approximately 1 game every 2 months) ... So I don't see any evidence that Wii owners are any less dedicated to gaming than HD console owners.
Does amount of dedication matter, if they just buy and play? :)
Its alive, its alive! I have made a... quote monster! (Broken one it seems. Its missing some parts. :/)
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Deneidez said: Take2 losses say hi! , http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/take-two-losses-climb-to-USD50-million , looks like its was very profitable to make GTA 4. I predict that they will make lots of dlc for GTA 4, because alone its not really making enough profit. |
The only two profitable quarters Take-Two has in the past 2 years were the quarter in which GTA4 was relased and the following quarter. I think it's safe to say that with most games, the revenue stream is almost always front loaded. GTA accounted for nearly 50% of the revenue for the entire year in 2008...how many games did Take-Two release overall? You really should take a look at Take-Two's 10-K and 10-Q before you slam the impact that the game had on the company. Without GTA4 the company would have had 8 out of 8 quarters in the red as opposed to 6 out of 8.
I'm not sure why one would expect one game to make a large publisher profitable for more than a six month period in which most of the sales for that particular game occur. The company has a lot of issues to deal with that detrimentally impact their bottom line...GTA is not one of those issues. I guess it's easy to say something "is not really making enough profit" when you do absolutely no looking into the numbers at all though.
sakicfan84 said:
The only two profitable quarters Take-Two has in the past 2 years were the quarter in which GTA4 was relased and the following quarter. I think it's safe to say that with most games, the revenue stream is almost always front loaded. GTA accounted for nearly 50% of the revenue for the entire year in 2008...how many games did Take-Two release overall? You really should take a look at Take-Two's 10-K and 10-Q before you slam the impact that the game had on the company. Without GTA4 the company would have had 8 out of 8 quarters in the red as opposed to 6 out of 8. I'm not sure why one would expect one game to make a large publisher profitable for more than a six month period in which most of the sales for that particular game occur. The company has a lot of issues to deal with that detrimentally impact their bottom line...GTA is not one of those issues. I guess it's easy to say something "is not really making enough profit" when you do absolutely no looking into the numbers at all though. |
"Netincome for fiscal 2008 was a record $97.1 million"
Thats 97.1-50=47.1
Can anyone remember how much did MS pay for DLC? ;)
Anyway, if this continues... *oops*
(Well, actually I hope they go bankrupt. Just for games sake.)
Deneidez said:
"Netincome for fiscal 2008 was a record $97.1 million" Thats 97.1-50=47.1 Can anyone remember how much did MS pay for DLC? ;) Anyway, if this continues... *oops* (Well, actually I hope they go bankrupt. Just for games sake.) |
One question, what does the loss that they incurred have to do with GTA? They recouped the development and advertising costs of that game in one week of sales.
They have lots of sinkholes in their line-up. Of course GTA isn't going to be able to cover them all.
Wow. somebody mentions wii along GTA and the world breaks loose.
Nice post as always, Rol. You should write editorials for a gaming magazine ^^
| Impulsivity said:
The market being split between Sony and Microsoft makes it look as if HD consoles aren't the future; if you combine the game sales of the 360 and the PS3 they flat out dwarf the Wii especially with 3rd party sales. When the Wii games sell the 16+ million that successful HD games sell then talk about how its a sea change. There have been dozens of 10 million+ sellers on the PS systems over the years and very very few on Nintendo systems. Whats the top selling 3rd party Wii game at? A few million? How is that the future of gaming? |
I can't find an HD game that has sold 16+million... isn't GTAIV at 12 million or something?
10 million+ sellers on a Playstation system:
Grand Turismo (PS), Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2), Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2), Grand Theft Auto III (PS2), Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2)
Total number of 10 million+ sellers on a Playstation system: 5
10 million+ sellers on a Nintendo system:
Wii Sports (Wii), Wii Play (Wii), Wii Fit (Wii), Mario Kart Wii (Wii), Super Mario 64 (N64), Super Mario Bros (NES), Duck Hunt (NES), Super Mario Bros 3 (NES), Super Mario World (SNES), Super Mario Allstars (SNES), Pokemon Red/Blue (GB), Pokemon Yellow (GB), Tetris (GB), Pokemon Gold/Silver (GB), Super Mario Land (GB), Super Mario Land 2 (GB), Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire (GBA), Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green (GBA), Nintedogs (DS), New Super Mario Bros (DS), Brain Training (DS), Pokemon Diamond/Pearl (DS), Mario Kart DS (DS), More Brain Training (DS), Animal Crossing: Wild World (DS)
Total number of 10 million+ sellers on a Nintendo system: 25
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games is nearly at 7,000,000 and is still selling.
| sakicfan84 said: One question, what does the loss that they incurred have to do with GTA? They recouped the development and advertising costs of that game in one week of sales. They have lots of sinkholes in their line-up. Of course GTA isn't going to be able to cover them all. |
They also have other profitable games like carnivale games etc. And yes, something that took that much to make should cover most of those holes. Anyway the whole netincome should be a lot more, but it isn't. Maybe theres nice clean grave next to factor 5 and free radical.
(And of course if you calculate that it took about $100 million to make it... Its not there either. ;))
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