It's a new age of technology...no one wants to swap cd's anymore dont you people get it? we become lazier and lazier with every new technology that arises....

Blue Ray is way better than Cd's have you tried to scratch a blue ray disk? it's EXTREMELY hard to...trust me I have a video which I am trying to destroy my copy of Soccom for Ps3 and it took me a while to destroy it...You have to really scratch it on purpose with like a razor blade or something...with cd's one drop or smudge on the disk and you wipe too hard and a scratch appears...Boooo

So you define devs by if they can make a game on PS trey without installs? Even if the game is horrible?

15-20 seconds Is fine for most people as to say 10 minute and a 5 gig install.

I wanna travel to planet B but i gotta wait for a install awww.

Come on man, you are forgetting something here.  Since the 360 and PS3 don't have something that matches Wii Fit, swapping disks are about as close as these owners get to the experience of having to get out of their chairs.  So, swapping disks are a way to get some body movement into their game playing.

So, the PS3 is totally lacking due to the inability to swap disks.

I think we're having a communication breakdown, and not on my end.

What exactly in the concept "good developers were able to have huge amount of data directly streaming from the Blu-Ray with no install at all" was so hard to grasp?

Maybe b/c I have been around for more then one gen but disc swapping was never a problem for me. In fact it was a badge of honor among our friends to say what your only on disc 3? Man I an on 4 for like two days now!

But now with younger gamers thinking they are what drives the market and the industry big business has hyped not having to swap isc and like the lambs they are they follow along blindly…….

Disc swapping is not a problem and if it can mean a better game then I welcome it and have no problem getting off my ass, walking the 15 ‘ to the system and swapping out the disc

I consider Konami to be a good developer and I consider Metal Gear Solid 4 is a great game.  I can't even load a save game from a different level without a long install.  Is that "fine and dandy"?  I own a PS3 and I do love it, but don't blind yourself to a real and tangible flaw, as opposed to a flaw that has yet to be seen.  The simple answer about your Planet A / Planet B scenario:  There will be an acceptable solution.

I'm not turning a blind eye: MGS4 is a great game, but the multi-install is an utter disgrace indeed. It is also the _only_ game that relies on such a system instead of, say, silently caching on HD during the cut-scenes and streaming during the action.

I stand on my position that if Naughty Dog did it, and Guerrilla did it, and I never encountered a single texture pop-in in KZ2 that has multi-GB levels, then the problem is more likely to be on the developers' side than on hardware limitations. PS3's Blu-Ray streams at a constant 9MB/s if I remember well... that's enough to replace half of the texture memory in about 14 seconds. The same happens with the average DVD read speed on the 360 in about 8-9 seconds. Sounds not too bad to my - admittedly inexpert - ear, and quick enough to be pulled off in background in most cases.

In the future I can expect devlopers to become even more proficient at parallel coding on the PS3 and streaming optimization. As I said, skillful developer teams have reached the goal yet for top-tier graphical marvels such as Uncharted and KZ2. But again, the point is that no skillset is going to magically increase the storage space of a DVD.

That sounds real and tangible to me.

PS: I am sensible to the subject. I played Secret of the Monkey Island 2 on the Amiga, and it came on 12 floppies. I thus filled my lifetime quota of swapping back in the days, now I deserve better :)

Good devs are devs that make a good game with ANY hardware,nothing about disc,installs nor loadtimes matter nor does Graphics.

Communication still broken...

You brought up the multi-install issue as a counterweight to the disk swap. I declared that several teams proved that great, data-heavy games can be coded without any install whatsoever.

Now your retort is that install and load times don't matter for the quality of a game? So why did you bring out installs at all?

And, uhm, if you think that graphics don't matter, why did you create a thread titled "Need for Speed the better looking racer? (Better looking than GT5? Yes it is)".

You seem to have very incostant priorities, is all I'm saying :)

1.Not all games can have no installs especally with the BR.

2.Installs nor disc swapping dont matter,Honestly people dont care about them,except the paranoid fanboys.