Sah, you get/make a mold. And you just pour metal into it lol. Its pretty simple. My uncle used to do it for all his rifles. Yes it would take a while, but it is just another thing stating that you dont need to obtain ammo legally.

Thank you for pointing that out. I was just about to do it myself, reading entire thread ftw.

 *facepalm* A drop in supply causes an increase in price (as long as demand stays the same). A banning in firearms will cause a decrease in some of the avenues of which illegal firearms are obtained, whilst the demand for illegal firearms will remain the same, this will cause an increase in the price of illegal firearms and put them out of reach of low-level criminals.

It's called 'skewing the data', and it's something they must not teach where you live.

You see, that chart didn't bother to show crime rates, homicides, or anything other than intentional gun-related deaths (does this include sucides too? US suicide rates are higher than in Europe, also skewing the data). You can't use that chart to prove anything else other than more firearms = they're used more. That's like arguing that if there are more kitchen knives, there'll be more accidental cuttings. What would make a better case is if they compared TOTAL homicides, murders, or violent crimes to give the same kind of graph. Of course they couldn't, since Switzerland and Saudi Arabia (very high gun ownership %) have 2 of the lowest per-capita countries in the world for murders.

You could make the same statistical assumption about virtually every item on the world.

Generally people don't legally buy firearms and then ilgeally sell them. Every gun has a serial numbner. You buy the gun, you get recorded as the owner. You sell that gun and its used in a murder, now you are going to jail. You don't know how all this stuff works. So stop assuming

The only thing I get from this graph is that every country's number of intentional firearm deaths loosely follows a pattern according to percentage of household with a gun except for the US which is abnormally high. Why it is that way though, I have no idea.

 First of all you said "generally" which implies that this doesn't happen all of the time. Secondly, you said so earlier in the thread yourself "most guns used in crimes are either stolen or imported" (or words to that effect). If there are no guns to steal, then one of the avenues of obtaining illegal firearms has been blocked.

What's there to assume?

Well the stolen amount of guns is faaaaaar less then the amount smuggled in. Generally only time firearms are stolen is when a house is robbed, or when they rob a shipment(lol doesnt happen like ever) most of the weapons are smuggled in from other countries with drugs and stuff.

Here's the issue: We're not debating if firearms cause firearm injuries or death. Of course they do. What we're debating is if more guns cause crime. The problem is that the graph that was given does not provide any data that actually helps that claim. Given the data sets, it's not trying to correlate crime, homicides, or murders to the number of households with guns. Only the number of households with guns vs. the number of crimes comitted with guns. If you have more of something - cars, guns, alcohol, drugs, knives, sports, ect, you will have more accidents, or what not.

That's why his chart is totally moot. Wouldn't a better chart be to compare murder rates per capita, to firearms per capita to see if there's a correlation between gun ownership and murders?

Here's what I have for a Guns & Crime aggregate. I gathered 'List of Countries by Gun Ownership' and 'Murders Per Capita, By Country' to give a trend line of asking if more guns = more murders. In this listing (which contains as many countries as I could find)

Now, as you can see with this list I created, firearm ownership DOES NOT correlate with higher murder rates per capita. In fact, the inverse is true. As the number of firearms per capita slightly increases (or if you want to talk statistics, it may be static, as it increases from 21% to 28%), the number of murders per capita goes down very rapidly. Thus showing that more guns = less crime. Cut it how you like, but I included as many countries in this as possible that were on both lists.

I used the following countries and data points for this analysis:

Please note that's firearm ownership per 100 people, and murder rates per 1,000 people.

Now, I'd like all the reasonable gun-control advocates to provide similar lists refuting this. Feel free to give me more data points, as this list may be incomplete, but I gathered as much data from those 2 lists as possible.

If you'd like another view of it that's larger: click here

Yes, actually. it's just as easy to find out how to make a bomb, and then plant it somewhere.

Ultimately, these situations are either very unfortunate, or could have been prevented. Usually the latter.

If you take away guns, people will always find another way to kill their fellow man. I mean, should be outlaw fireworks and bleach? No. Just because something could be turned into a weapon, doesn't mean we shouldn't be without them.

Just sayin'.

Oh, and hunting supports some of the communities in the Appalachians, Ozarks, and such. So if guns are to be made illegal, I have a right to defend myself, so I will keep my AK. But it won't happen, it's unconstitutional.