Thanks for adding important and valuable information to this thread.

I agree 100%!

I still believe Doom is the greatest FPS that has ever been created.

As much as I love cinema, I don't think that's a reasonable comparison. The "form" in cinema is not only cameras and special effects. It's direction and editing and composition and lighting... and those two movies were great in this regard. Aside from clearer picture, would Orson Welles have shot Citizen Kane differently if he had the technical means of 30 years later? I don't think so. Same with Fellini.

On the other hand if the same authors of Goldeneye were to create it today, would it be the same? No, it wouldn't.

Movies in the 40s and 50s can be formally great even by today's standards and taste. Games from 1996 simply aren't, however great they were back then.

PS: before shouts of "gameplay before graphics!", that's not what I mean with form. Form as in the means by which you convey your message.

It might mean graphics, audio fidelity, ability to handle physics and AI, amount of content you can deliver, ability to stream data so to not interrupt the game flow etc.

Authors can have great ideas and clear goals for the gameplay, but it can be maimed by the technical means by which it is conveyed. HL and HL2 have better storytelling than Goldeneye, and HL2 also has much superior technical means to convey its content.

A poorly lit or focused camera shot of agreat subject, with good composition, still loses something. You appreciate the idea, but it can get better.

After Perfect Dark came out, I never went back to Goldeneye. All the people going back to Goldeneye expecting good gameplay need to wake up. People say that both games are completely outdated, but Goldeneye really is the true outdated game of the two. It was good for it's time, but PD completely replaced it. It was basically a massive reskin of Goldeney, but with tons of extra content.

Try going back to PD's multiplayer, then you'll realize that besides the visuals/animations/lack of online, it actually has much more content and replay value than many of today's games. This is a fact. I used to play that game for countless hours. The amount of options and variety that the game had is pretty unforgettable.

Though it had a 8-bot limit, you also can't deny that it probably has the best bot system than anygame out today. Besides being able to choose about of like 6 difficulties, there was also a list of "personalities" that can be placed on each bot. They also weren't limited to the typical "red" or "blue" teams - if you wanted you could have 4 teams of 2. Then throw in the ability to give them specific commands. If I remember right, I think a bot could even be told to attack a specific player. It makes UT3/KZ2's bots look like half-assed trash (though when I say that, I especially mean it for KZ2).

Anyone saying that the game is completely outdated probably never played the game. Nowdays, a game could get away with bad gameplay as long as the graphics are good - look back at all the threads discussing KZ2's graphics. Now try to find some threads praising it's gameplay......much more harder, right? Actually some of the first pieces of info related to it's gameplay went somethin like, "No splitscreen, no co-op". I'm not sayin it's a bad game, because it's a really good one, but GG just doesn't get that special respect from me that a rare few other devs do.

I don`t really think you understand what you`re talking about.

First of all you can`t ask "would he shoot differently" because what he created in that time at that place etc. made the movie good.

Of course making Goldeneye today would make the game not nearly half as good. But it was made then, in that time at that place etc. therefor the game is a masterpiece. They used what was avaiable that time, and pushed it to the limits. Tell me one FPS which have done that since Goldeneye/Perfect Dark. And I mean all aspects, not just graphics or gameplay.

Who will remember today`s shooters in ten years? Be honest.

And really, this bullshait about form? I can`t see that the game doesn`t flow anymore, so that`s rubbish. It`s flow`s beautiful, like a flower in the wind.  I suggest you sit down and play these games today, and then tell me what you miss. I`m sure you`ll forget, because you`d have a hell of a time. Just like watching great old movies even those without colors.

Doesn`t gameplay(one of the most important parts of a FPS) matter? Can`t you still play Mario 1 on NES and have fun?

I think that you`re just a graphic junkie trying to kill off great old games.

@bolded: Who knows?  George Lucas feels content making good films, waiting 20-30 years, and then ruining them before he puts them out on DVD.  So sometimes you can't trust an artist with their own ideas if you give them too much technology and too much freedom.  Many modern games are made with too much tech and not enough fun or not enough art in them.

I don't see games as a linear progression from bad to good, constantly getting better.  Some aspects of some genres are constantly getting better, but many aspects of many games and genres are constantly getting worse.  I see it as more of a random mishmash of bullshit with a few random gems hidden every year.

@2nd bolded: Games from 1996 are fucking amazing!  Still.  To this day.  Some of the world's greatest games were made in 1996.  Here are some examples:

Super Mario 64

Diablo

Civilization II

(and Quake,Command & Conquer: Red Alert,Descent II,Pilotwings 64)

But anyway, you just slipped up and accidentally mentioned one of the best years in gaming.  GoldenEye 007 was actually released in 1997, the year of Final Fantasy VII, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Star Fox 64, and Mario Kart 64, or in the opinions of many on these forums, the best Final Fantasy, the best Castlevania, the best Star Fox, and the best Mario Kart.  I don't think the bad tech of 1997 is making these games unplayable with today's standards and tastes.

When I played Timespliters 2 I forgot Perfect Dark/goldeneye.

I agree. 1 shot kill, pistols in the temple. Or dual-wielding machine guns. Knives only. And one of my favs; proximity mines only. Also remote mines only was fun trying to stick it to your friend while dodging his ones. Good fps multiplayer gameplay hasn't changed since goldeneye.

And I don't think there has been any other fps where I could inject someone and their screen would go all crazy. Also laptop guns and black-hole grenades (or whatever they were called) The weapons in perfect dark were sick!

I love/recommend turning on invincibility, throwing knives only, and playing tag, in a long and winding level like Caverns. We'd pick scientists dressed in all white so that you could tell by the blood when somebody got stabbed. For extra fun we'd throw in Jaws and Oddjob.