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Forums - General - Will California legalize marijuana?

Hawkeye on 28 February 2009
akuma587 said:
This will definitely test the limits of how far a state can go in conflict with the federal government on this issue.

Obama (a la the U.S. Attorney's Office and Eric Holder the Attorney General) did recently say they would stop federal raids on state medical marijuana facilities, so it is unclear how they will respond if this happens.

Regardless, it should bring the issue to the forefront of public debate if it takes place. This is always a good thing for "progressives" because the more an issue is debated, the more comfortable people become with it. Ironically, if Republicans revolt against this they will be going against their "state's rights" mantra.

Take gay marriage for example. People from younger generations are way more open to it than older generations. Young people have been brought up with the issue whereas older people could not have imagined talking about it when they were younger.

 

I don't understand the gay rights issue. People are gay now and the number won't increase if gays are given more rights, it will just help prevent discrimination. Lots of people were getting abortions before Roe v Wade, it just allowed people to engage in bahaviors they were already doing safely and legally.



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Hawkeye on 28 February 2009
akuma587 said:
Moongoddess256 said:
Eh yeah marijuana is kinda like green eggs and ham. People who previously were severely opposed often quickly change their minds once they've actually experienced it. Unless they are the types that experience the severe paranoia.

I get the paranoia, but I've learned it depends on my mood and situation, so its avoidable if I just do it at the right time and in the right place.

I love the green eggs and ham analogy!  Its so true!

Honestly, I would rather be paranoid out of my mind than super hungover the next day.  Its at least pretty interesting when you get paranoid.  Not to mention I would rather be paranoid than get alcohol poisoning.

I wouldn't recommend smoking pot to people with psychological problems (although in some cases I think it could help them).  Then again, I wouldn't recommend heavy drinking to someone with psychological problems either.

 

I sometimes worry about things and I hate it. I would never take a drug that does that to me. I also don't want to drink alcohol because I want to always be in control of my actions. I can understand why people drink (and get stoned, but I am more averse to that) but I get annoyed when people who engage in behaviors I choose not to get offended simply because I don't engage in them.

Is it offensive to people if I am personally opposed to drinking and smoking (weed- people who smoke cigs are intolerable imo cuz they have to smoke all the time) but OK with others doing these things, as long as they are not pressuring me to do them?

 

I sometimes get



Hawkeye on 28 February 2009
wfz said:
Well I've seen studies and research that have linked marijuana causing schizophrenia in people, mainly those who already have a biological disposition.

I don't know if legalizing marijuana will make more people smoke it, but I hope not. Schizophrenia is one of the worst things that can happen to someone. Almost twice as many Americans have Schizophrenia than Aids/HIV. For every Schizophrenic person, there are even more who share the biological disposition but never developed schizophrenia (like the family members). Marijuana would very much liken the chance that those individuals would develop Schizophrenia, and that is absolutely horrible in my mind. That is a LOT of people at risk for developing Schizophrenia, and that's a very serious condition to develop.

Who knows if marijuana has connections to anything else. That's not a risk I think I'd like to take. Even if it doesn't have any other relations, helping to cause Schizophrenia is horrible enough. Should something like that be legalized?

 

 

The other problem is that some people get stoned (or drink) to escape problems that they otherwise could eventually learn to deal with: depression, anger, social anxiety, ect. People like that who take these drugs can form a dependence, which forms a new problem into itself. The person may do something else to mask this new problem.

Problem after problem piles onto each other, masking the real inital problem. This makes phyco therapy extremly difficult, and often times people are never able to overcome their origianl problem.

 

I have a family member who has an anger problem that they keep at bay by drinking. This person doesn't have an addiction, but they definatly have a dependance. It's sad.



akuma587 on 28 February 2009

OMG this thread is so broken.

I mean I can understand why people freak out about gay rights. They genuninely care about maintaining a healthy set of social values. I think that is a worthy goal. The problem is that they think that keeping gay people from marrying is somehow the most effective way to protect those values. The goal is good, but the logic is bad.

Funny little aside here, I have a theory that I like to tell people. My theory is that if someone needs to change because they have personal problems, are an asshole, need to get their life in perspective, etc., there are two effective ways to encourage them to change. 1) Get them to smoke marijuana on a casual basis. If that doesn't work, we move onto 2) Beat them within an inch of their life.

Both of those things kind of put your world in perspective and encourage you to think about things you wouldn't normally think about. Obviously the second method is the last resort for the more extreme cases.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Hawkeye on 28 February 2009
wfz said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
wfz said:
Well I've seen studies and research that have linked marijuana causing schizophrenia in people, mainly those who already have a biological disposition.

I don't know if legalizing marijuana will make more people smoke it, but I hope not. Schizophrenia is one of the worst things that can happen to someone. Almost twice as many Americans have Schizophrenia than Aids/HIV. For every Schizophrenic person, there are even more who share the biological disposition but never developed schizophrenia (like the family members). Marijuana would very much liken the chance that those individuals would develop Schizophrenia, and that is absolutely horrible in my mind. That is a LOT of people at risk for developing Schizophrenia, and that's a very serious condition to develop.

Who knows if marijuana has connections to anything else. That's not a risk I think I'd like to take. Even if it doesn't have any other relations, helping to cause Schizophrenia is horrible enough. Should something like that be legalized?

When a drug is legal, it's easier to find reliable information on it.  When drugs are illegal, the truth gets drowned out by "zomg it's the devil-weed" lies and "zomg it should be legal it can save the universe" lies.

People will have to know if their family has a history of schizophrenia, and realize that even if their family doesn't, there is a very small chance that trying a drug will be bad for them.  I think that all that information should be readily available, but that in the end, the choice to try it or not should be theirs alone and the government shouldn't stop them.  Telling people not to do drugs should be the job of friends and family, not the job of the government and paid for by nationwide taxes.

 

Rubang I always appreciate your posts, even if we are on the opposite end of an argument.

In your first paragraph, are you saying it's hard to come by the truth because extremists on both sides like to blow up the truth to put the other side down? I can agree with that, but there are definitely still reliable sources of information, even if they are alongside countless others that aren't reliable. It can be hard to find out what is and what isn't.

Schizophrenia is much more common than people realize. Part of the ignorance stems from Schizophrenia never really being focused on by our media.

While I agree that people should make their own choices in life, that doesn't mean that they are perfectly informed of the entire situation. If people want to smoke marijuana, fine, but they should really study and know everything that it can cause. Another big thing to consider is relationships with your family members, and how they might react to it.

There's a whole parallel topic about Scizophrenia that I'm a bit frustrated about. The masses really don't know anything about it, and it's totally misunderstood. Twice as many people will have Schizophrenia than Aids/HIV in America. In high school you'll get a bunch of speakers and even a health class that goes over all the STI's and Aids, but nothing is ever said of Scizophrenia. I could go on and on about this topic, but since it's a bit off topic I'm going to stop. The whole thing just really frustrates me though, partly because my sister has Schizophrenia and I've seen a lot of what Schizophrenia does and how it affects everyone's relationships and messes up lives.

 

(just grinded through a bunch of edits to clear my mistakes and whatnot) For some reason I have a way easier reading through my post after I actually post it. I'm amazed at how many mistakes I miss before making my post. :P

Does Schizophrenia affect about 0.5% of the population or something like that? Iv'e read a little about it but don't know tons.

I'm pretty sure it develops between 15-28 years old or something like that in people. Do you happen to know the warning signs? Mental illness runs in my family so it could be useful for myself or other people in my family if I notice something wrong with them.