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Forums - General - Historians Release New Ranking of Presidents

Kasz216 on 17 February 2009
akuma587 said:
But its fair to blame people for the Community Reinvestment Act?

Wait what?

No.  The Community Reinvestment Act was a good thing. 

The strengthing of it led to some problems however... because it led to people lending to people with bad credit.


The Community Reinvestment Act made it so that poor people with good or nuetral credit could get loans.

The problem was... the strengthning of it in the 90's combined with the republicans deregulation led to people giving bad loans to poor people with bad credit... and doing it with bad loans.

Had either of the other not happened we might not be in this mess.... well yet anyway.  Since this was bound to happen no matter what.  You can't force your way out of every time recession and expect everything to turn out well.

That and CRA loans come with credits.  So if you bought securities backed by CRA loans you got CRA credits.

Subsidizing of poorer housing should be done through the government through tax breaks or just outright paying for poor peoples homes.



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elprincipe on 17 February 2009

I think LBJ is far too high as well. He was a very poor president on foreign policy and even worse on domestic policy.



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Jackson50 on 17 February 2009
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
Panama Canal?


I thought Panama had a good reason to be seperated from Columbia honestly.

They peacefully wanted to leave like the other countries in gran columbia did... however were overthrown by the columbians.

It stayed that way largely due to US support. (Started by Polk.)

Panma getting it's own independence was actually fixing a past american wrong.  Though admittidly for a price.

Whether or not you think Panama had a good reason to be seperated from Colombia is irrelevant. Roosevelt did not have the right to intervene in Colombian affairs. Roosevelt supported the revolutionaries and rushed the ratification of the Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty to ensure US hegemony in the region. I am not opposed to Roosevelt being regarded as an exceptional president, but he bullied a small nation for US gain and dominance. That, in my opinion, does not reflect well on his legacy. Kasz, you can still regard TR as the best president while concurrently admitting he made some mistakes...no president is perfect.

 



Kasz216 on 17 February 2009
Jackson50 said:
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
Panama Canal?


I thought Panama had a good reason to be seperated from Columbia honestly.

They peacefully wanted to leave like the other countries in gran columbia did... however were overthrown by the columbians.

It stayed that way largely due to US support. (Started by Polk.)

Panma getting it's own independence was actually fixing a past american wrong.  Though admittidly for a price.

Whether or not you think Panama had a good reason to be seperated from Colombia is irrelevant. Roosevelt did not have the right to intervene in Colombian affairs. Roosevelt supported the revolutionaries and rushed the ratification of the Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty to ensure US hegemony in the region. I am not opposed to Roosevelt being regarded as an exceptional president, but he bullied a small nation for US gain and dominance. That, in my opinion, does not reflect well on his legacy. Kasz, you can still regard TR as the best president while concurrently admitting he made some mistakes...no president is perfect.

We were already intervening in Colombian affairs by helping the colombians keep down the people in Panama in the first place.

Like i said.  I disagree with the price, and why he did it.  But it was the right call... and in the end it benefited both Panma and America.

Had we not intervened in the first place Panma wouldn't of been free.

Ironically the reason we intervened in the first place was protecting transportation routes.  We had transportation rights through Panma and Columbia and were afraid a new Panma government would not what us going through them.



akuma587 on 17 February 2009

I mean I don't really give a shit about the Panama Canal, but as Jackson said no President is perfect.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

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Kasz216 on 17 February 2009
akuma587 said:
I mean I don't really give a shit about the Panama Canal, but as Jackson said no President is perfect.

Well no person in history is perfect.

The difference is... there are some that have done things that are generally universally considered bad...

and amusingly they tend to be both the highest and the lowest ranked presidents of all time.

It seems the mettle of the character or the ability of the president isn't so much important as when you were president.

 

 



akuma587 on 17 February 2009

The context of those decisions is equally important. I mean if Bill Clinton would have tried to get rid of the Supreme Court I think it would have been a much bigger deal than Lincoln doing it because of the differences in what was going on outside Washington.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Strategyking92 on 18 February 2009

May I just add that the panama canal zone is the most industrialized part of panama now? It's being apart of helping their economy.

The victorian era is so interesting



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Kasz216 on 18 February 2009
Strategyking92 said:
May I just add that the panama canal zone is the most industrialized part of panama now? It's being apart of helping their economy.

The victorian era is so interesting

The Panma canal helped them when we signed the treaty too... not only did they get US assistance in their independence but other assistance as well.

The only people you can claim wronged by the Panma Canal deal was Columbia... and they were the ones holding down Panma when they weren't supposed to.