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Forums - General - Do you think Darwin is right

The_vagabond7 said:

Ok, this is just fucking retarded. I'm sorry to people with down syndrome for insulting you like this, but this is just getting so stupid. This is just another message board dwelling theists. He starts flaming atheists half way through, and loses credibility as their being an intelligent designer by bringing biblical accuracy into the fray.

 

 

"But here is what is worse for this theory: Atheists, aren’t you always telling us that if we can’t measure, see, touch, taste, smell, hear, interact or verify that something exists then you are being a superstitious freak to believe in it. So let me ask you this? You are postulating that there are infinite other universes out there, none of which I can measure, see, touch, taste, smell, hear, interact or verify? Aren’t you being a superstitious freak to believe that? And you want me to believe it too (some sort of evangelization to your superstitious blind faith)? I don’t think I have that much blind faith. Especially when the other alternative seams to actually have certain claims of evidences in addition to this. What I mean by that is that when I start adding other proofs to this like the Moral Argument, the Resurrection of Jesus, the accuracy of the New Testament, and so on, we see that the weight of the evidence really lies on the Theist’s view and one has to force oneself to believe in Atheism and multiple universes."

 

The conclusion is really good. After asserting that any mechanistic cause of the universe would in and of itself require a cause simply pushing the problem back, he turns the same reasoning on God. This is good.

"Now the big question that everyone asks is: But where did God COME from? Kids ask that, atheists ask that. We ask that. In other words where the God come from and who made God?
Who is Agent X? The short answer for this is: That’s a stupid question."

 

He then goes on to offer an explanation that since there was no time before the big bang, then nothing came before god, so obviously nothing created god. He always existed. An explanation that could just as easily be applied to a mechanistic cause, and any argument against a non sentient mechanistic cause before time existed can still be leveled at god.  It even shoots his earlier argument in the foot that a mechanistic cause would have to take place in the "infinity past" (as he puts it) and clearly that isn't the case because the universe isn't "infinity old", but if there was no time before the big bang, then "past" ceases to have meaning before the big bang making it perfectly within the realm of reason.  This guy is a moron. Thanks for the laugh, sir, but you aren't convincing anybody but the choir of your brilliance.

 

Edit: He amusingly and with infinite irony that is no doubt lost on him ends with this sentence 

"Frankly, people who have blind faith in things that are unscientific, scare me (OK I just had to say that – but it is true)."

Indented: That was rude.

Bold: Interesting point, but I did say to e-mail him about it instead of bashing it. I suck at debates. He is better....

Underlined: Christianity IS backed up by science and historical foundations. You would know if you did the proper research.

 



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I spent my first 22 years of life as a conservative religious zealot. I've done my research.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

I believe in his theory of natural selection (aka survival of the fittest). But I do not believe in evolution.



RCTjunkie said:

Underlined: Christianity IS backed up by science and historical foundations. You would know if you did the proper research.

 

Really?  What science backs up Christianity?  I must have missed that in the most recent copy of the Yale Science Journal.

Christianity does have historical support, but frankly I am so cynical these days and so aware of how ignorant my fellow Christians are that I don't expect any of them to be able to articulate anything rational in defense of Christianity using history as evidence.  The modern church (well, most modern churches) have decided to take the "head in the sand" approach, with respect to science and history.  Hell, they probably think that the first five books of the Bible were written by Moses!  Every good religious scholars know that it was at least 2000 years later until pen was ever put to paper in recording any of the Pentateuch or later biblical books.

Hell, most Christians today probably don't even know that they are supposed to know that Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible.  Knowledge and Christianity have unfortunately become diametrically opposed forces in our society.  It doesn't have to be that way, but our society has certainly encouraged it to be that way.  I've just given up discussing religion with anyone who I don't already know is intelligent, frankly because it makes me ashamed to be a Christian.  Its just unfathomable to me how you could be so ignorant about your own religion, let alone everything else.

 



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akuma587 said:
RCTjunkie said:

Underlined: Christianity IS backed up by science and historical foundations. You would know if you did the proper research.

 

Really?  What science backs up Christianity?  I must have missed that in the most recent copy of the Yale Science Journal.

Christianity does have historical support, but frankly I am so cynical these days and so aware of how ignorant my fellow Christians are that I don't expect any of them to be able to articulate anything rational in defense of Christianity using history as evidence.  The modern church (well, most modern churches) have decided to take the "head in the sand" approach, with respect to science and history.  Hell, they probably think that the first five books of the Bible were written by Moses!  Every good religious scholars know that it was at least 2000 years later until pen was ever put to paper in recording any of the Pentateuch or later biblical books.

Hell, most Christians today probably don't even know that they are supposed to know that Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible.  Knowledge and Christianity have unfortunately become diametrically opposed forces in our society.  It doesn't have to be that way, but our society has certainly encouraged it to be that way.  I've just given up discussing religion with anyone who I don't already know is intelligent, frankly because it makes me ashamed to be a Christian.  Its just unfathomable to me how you could be so ignorant about your own religion, let alone everything else.

 

 

Well, I don't know whether to question your christianity or.. I just don't know.

People who claim to be christian aren't always christian, that's obvious. But when someone genuinely believes christ is their saviour it shouldn't matter to you as a christian. You believe. So you shouldn't care. But no, let's talk about how most christians are ignorant, and how we all should be ashamed for wanting to believe in something.

Yeah, it fucking sucks to be christian right now.

 

Well you know what? Science doesn't hold up the little stitches of existence. People. People. People. People. I am going mad with the stupidity of people. It drives me insane not knowing everything. Others are content to be a sloth of the brain. Some people claim to know the genesis of the universe. Stupidity like that. Well. It gets to me. Believe what you want. But you cannot prove a person wrong when you cannot prove 100% without a doubt that you are right either. People further their agenda. And thus definitions are changed. Theory becomes fact. Material becomes true. Real.WOOOOOOGABALOOGA.

After that rant you may wonder if I am going to get to a point. Here it is.

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Ok, but seriously, come on. Christians should not feel bad about anothers salvation. If you believe, you should have no trouble with their own salvation. Otherwise, that's just being ignorant.  People are allowed to believe their is more to existence than materialization? Right? Well, I guess that's what I believe.  I can't believe in a sudden start to everything. So, I gotta write the big bang THEORY out. Maybe everything is on a loop? Well, nobody knows. Nobody will ever know. It is most likely not meant to be known. Is it so hard to think that there are some things which we can't figure out? What I am talking about by 'us' are humans., BTW. I mean, like a dog can't be taught algebra. It's beyond his mental capacity. I admire people who want to push the limits, but it doesn't mean you should treat your inner thoughts as fact.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

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Ya. It makes sense to me. Mutations happen every day. If it's beneficial, or found to be sexually attractive then it becomes the dominant trait. Except in our society. i would love to have 6 fingers playing a guitar. :)



The_vagabond7 said:
monkeyman40210 said:
We will probably never now, only time shall tell.

 

Or you could just, you know, look at the facts. Either one really.

WTF. How about you stop being so pretentious. They are both theories, you know. Ever think that you may be wrong? Probably not...

 



It would have been better to say look at that data. Not the "facts", saying anything is a fact is dangerous.



I came in here and saw that kirby007 had a big old OP, and I thought that was really something to behold, and I was eager to read the thread, even though I had a feeling that it would turn out the way it did.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm reminded of a quote from The Simpsons:
(Lisa, to Mr. Burns) "You haven't changed at all! You're still evil and when you try to be good, you're even more evil!"



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kabhold said:
The_vagabond7 said:
monkeyman40210 said:
We will probably never now, only time shall tell.

 

Or you could just, you know, look at the facts. Either one really.

WTF. How about you stop being so pretentious. They are both theories, you know. Ever think that you may be wrong? Probably not...

 

 

He's probably just getting annoyed. My experience as an atheist is that it often feels like banging your head against a brick wall. To be honest (once again only from an atheists point of view) all the evidence of evolution is blatant and irrefutable, so the probability of it actually being wrong is extrordinarily low.