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Forums - General - Do you think Darwin is right

tombi123 said:
mrstickball said:
akuma587 said:

Mind telling me then, if BB is true, how the matter compressed itself into a singularity? Or how it was even there in the first place? The root of the issue with BB is that no matter how easy it is to say that it happened based on the universe expanding, it fails to answer the root of the problem: How the matter became a singularity, and how it naturally decided to react with an explosion to expand the singularity into the universe we have today.

 

 

 One theoretically possible explaination for the origin of matter is from a vacuum fluctuation. It is common knowledge in the physics community that particles and anti-particles get created out of nothing, exist for a certain time and then collide and destroy each other in a flash of light (emitting a photon). This happens billions of times every second. As long as they obey this formula: E * T = h (where E is energy, T is time and h is Planck's constant) creating particles out of nothing is allowed.

To extend this to the origin of the universe, you could say that as long as the net energy in the universe is close to zero, then the universe can be created out of nothing for a very long time. The positive energy is what causes the universe to expand and the negative energy is what causes the universe to contract (gravity). If the value of the density of the universe is at the critical density, then the net energy is zero and the universe can exist for an infinite amount of time. If it is very close to the critical density then the universe can exists for a very long time but will eventually contract in on itself or tear itself apart. 

 

 First of all I believe in the future scientists will say it was unfortunate, and dumb, to say (now, early in the 21st century) that particles are created "from nothing". They will then have discovered and confirmed the strings (or something else) and say that the apparent creation of matter/energy from "nothing" really was reorganization or reactions between strings.

I think one is really stupid if one thinks the explanation you cited is satisfying for the fundamental question of why the Big bang came to be, or why anything exists at all.

Second of all, even if stuff could be formed out of "nothing" it still don't explain the cause.

 



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Psi-borgs.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

I think Darwin was right.........until I saw the recent Battlestar Galactica episode. We're the 13th tribe.



im_sneaky said:
If God created the universe... what created God? That's the question I always ask religiious people who argue with atheists. They never have a good answer, because there is none. god..always existed. God..created himself. Etc etc, terrible answers. And yet they think that the perfect answer to how the universe began is, of course, that God created it.

 

 Ifyou want a smart, educated answer to that, read this.

Also, if you have a problem with the answer, be mature and e-mail him instead of making fun of it on the forum. Please read the ENTIRE article with an open mind.



RCTjunkie said:
im_sneaky said:
If God created the universe... what created God? That's the question I always ask religiious people who argue with atheists. They never have a good answer, because there is none. god..always existed. God..created himself. Etc etc, terrible answers. And yet they think that the perfect answer to how the universe began is, of course, that God created it.

 

 Ifyou want a smart, educated answer to that, read this.

Also, if you have a problem with the answer, be mature and e-mail him instead of making fun of it on the forum. Please read the ENTIRE article with an open mind.

 

Who is going to read the entire thing? Nobody when there is that much text.

So.. @ imsneakers

Then what's your answer?



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

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Strategyking92 said:
RCTjunkie said:
im_sneaky said:
If God created the universe... what created God? That's the question I always ask religiious people who argue with atheists. They never have a good answer, because there is none. god..always existed. God..created himself. Etc etc, terrible answers. And yet they think that the perfect answer to how the universe began is, of course, that God created it.

 

 Ifyou want a smart, educated answer to that, read this.

Also, if you have a problem with the answer, be mature and e-mail him instead of making fun of it on the forum. Please read the ENTIRE article with an open mind.

 

Who is going to read the entire thing? Nobody when there is that much text.

So.. @ imsneakers

Then what's your answer?

 

 I know it's a long article, but it's to cover all rebuttals that may occur. ;)



I'm skimming through the article, I'll read it in full later. But so far he's just using God of the gaps "Science doesn't know how the universe began, so it was god" and some rather dumb assumptions, or coming to conclusions that are logical without the need of god, but then ignoring them in favor of assumptions that do require an intelligent god. At one point he says either the universe is infinitely old are there are an infinite number of universes, and then says "well we can't prove there are infinite universes, and the universe isn't infinitely old, so it must be god". Which is still effectively a god of the gaps way of looking at it. String theory suggests a multiverse and alot of theoretical physics is moving in the direction of there being an infinite number of universes. Provable? Not right now. But I guess that is enough for God to exist.

His assertion that at some point our universe needs a non mechanistic free will agent is based on some rather clumsy assumptions and "well we don't know this for a fact, so it was god" kind of reasoning. It's more of the same, just very lengthy and with an ounce of eduction about physics.

I'll read it in full later, but as of this moment I'm not exactly impressed.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Haha, ok I'm stopped a paragraph short and it just got really funny. He's really self defeating now, he just equated ignorance with faith.

He says that since there is no evidence of a multi verse then belief in it can only be called faith. And he will take his "rational faith" over atheistic "blind faith" any day, and that a multiverse is no more provable than a serpent god. The thing is he is equating the "possibility" of a multiverse as being the same as "certain belief" in a multiverse. Scientists at this point shrug their shoulders and postulate various possibilities but admitting ignorance to the actual facts. This is apparently on equal terms with believing in god. Don't have an answer? LET IT BE GOD.

This is fucking stupid. I'll still read it in full though a bit later.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Ok, this is just fucking retarded. I'm sorry to people with down syndrome for insulting you like this, but this is just getting so stupid. This is just another message board dwelling theists. He starts flaming atheists half way through, and loses credibility as their being an intelligent designer by bringing biblical accuracy into the fray.

 

 

"But here is what is worse for this theory: Atheists, aren’t you always telling us that if we can’t measure, see, touch, taste, smell, hear, interact or verify that something exists then you are being a superstitious freak to believe in it. So let me ask you this? You are postulating that there are infinite other universes out there, none of which I can measure, see, touch, taste, smell, hear, interact or verify? Aren’t you being a superstitious freak to believe that? And you want me to believe it too (some sort of evangelization to your superstitious blind faith)? I don’t think I have that much blind faith. Especially when the other alternative seams to actually have certain claims of evidences in addition to this. What I mean by that is that when I start adding other proofs to this like the Moral Argument, the Resurrection of Jesus, the accuracy of the New Testament, and so on, we see that the weight of the evidence really lies on the Theist’s view and one has to force oneself to believe in Atheism and multiple universes."

 

The conclusion is really good. After asserting that any mechanistic cause of the universe would in and of itself require a cause simply pushing the problem back, he turns the same reasoning on God. This is good.

"Now the big question that everyone asks is: But where did God COME from? Kids ask that, atheists ask that. We ask that. In other words where the God come from and who made God?
Who is Agent X? The short answer for this is: That’s a stupid question."

 

He then goes on to offer an explanation that since there was no time before the big bang, then nothing came before god, so obviously nothing created god. He always existed. An explanation that could just as easily be applied to a mechanistic cause, and any argument against a non sentient mechanistic cause before time existed can still be leveled at god.  It even shoots his earlier argument in the foot that a mechanistic cause would have to take place in the "infinity past" (as he puts it) and clearly that isn't the case because the universe isn't "infinity old", but if there was no time before the big bang, then "past" ceases to have meaning before the big bang making it perfectly within the realm of reason.  This guy is a moron. Thanks for the laugh, sir, but you aren't convincing anybody but the choir of your brilliance.

 

Edit: He amusingly and with infinite irony that is no doubt lost on him ends with this sentence 

"Frankly, people who have blind faith in things that are unscientific, scare me (OK I just had to say that – but it is true)."



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Setting out to prove God exists through an argument based on scientific evidence in particular is an exercise in futility. Now if you want to say that the evidence could "suggest" that there is a God, that is a different story. But why are people so gung-ho about proving God exists? Wouldn't that defeat the point of having faith?

If God came down to Earth every other weekend and was like, "Hey, I'm God. You will go to hell if you don't worship me," then you wouldn't have "faith" in God because you would know he is real. Most religious people don't even know what faith means. It means you believe something is true, not that you know it is true. Otherwise it wouldn't be faith, it would be knowledge.

I'm not trying to criticize faith, as I am a person of "faith" myself, but let's just point out the elephant in the room. Most people who are religious are as dumb as a sack of bricks. Now let's point out the other elephant in the room. Most people who aren't religious are as dumb as a sack of bricks too.

So what have we learned today, children? That most people are as dumb as a sack of bricks. Think of how stupid the average person is. Half the people out there are dumber than THAT.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson