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Forums - Gaming - Oh Lord Capcom accused of Racism for RE5

This game could only be considered racist if you were killing the 'bad guys' because they were black!
as it is your not you are killing them because they are zombies, who just happen to be black because of the games setting.

anyway I'm more concerned about the crap contols than anything else.....



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hmm, personally, i think everyone takes whatever opportunity they can to point out racism in something.  everyone is guilty and i am definately no exception.  sure whites get the most crap for being racist but i can't say with a straight face that all people of every other race are fair and unbiased.  my biggest example is that most people of a certain race are friends almost exclusively with people of their own race. asians hang mostly with asians, blacks with blacks, indian with indian, hispanic with hispanic, middle eastern with middle eastern, and white with white.  of course there are always exceptions and it really depends on where your from but this has been my experience having lived in four states different states around the country.  i am friends with all kinds of peoples and get along with them but i have had times when i was ignored, been rude to or just plain excluded because i have lighter skin.  and i hate hearing any kind of bigotry from anyone as it gets annoying and is incredibly disrespectful. we all know it's true but are constantly talking about how bad this person or that person is when we're just as guilty. besides, it's just a game. i don't really get why people care so much.



 I still feel like some people are missing the point. Let's just look at the imagery. Images in books, movies, and video games are not accidental. They are used for a specific reason. For example, in Star Wars, they intentionally made the Empire visually similar to the German WWI troops and Nazis. Now I'm not saying Star Wars is racist. I'm saying that they used these images on purpose. It wasn't an accident or a coincidence. They did it to make the Empire seem more evil. Hell, German troops in World War I were even called Stormtroopers. This is an artistic choice.

 

This reason people might be offended by RE5 is for a similar reason.

 

So why would some people be offended by this? Maybe because it's too close to home. Maybe because it's in bad taste, or simply innappropriate. Maybe it's just too soon.

 

You can choose to read it however you want. But I don't think we can say that people don't have the right to be offended.

 

My apologies if the bold text seems condescending, I'm just trying to be clear with my intentions.

 



Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
"A bunch of people out for blood" is a pretty general description, which is why I think that calling it "near identical" is a real stretch.

Is a lynch mob genocidal?

Also, what do you think of my first and third paragraphs? I don't see that you've commented on them.
Hey, if this game were set in the south and suddenly the zombies started trying to lynch black people.   You bet people would see it as racist.

The same thing goes with a bunch of zombies armed with machetes trying to kill everyone not like them.

As for the "Social criticism" angle.   That doesn't really work when they are just repeating RE4.  Just in an insensitive angle.

Also... considering the average writing of a RE game....

That completely misses my point!  You seemed to be saying that the zombies were being incited to kill the protagonists, which makes it JUST LIKE genocide.  Is a lynch mob GENOCIDE?  No.  Your argument is much too general to make a compelling argument that it's a "near identical" situation as the genocide that has been occurring in Africa. 

As for your zombie lynch mob, that's again a much more specific thing, like the gas chambers, than a mob of zombies out for blood/brains.  This is a GENERAL sort of mayhem which is NOT specifically targeting enthicities (only Hutus get turned into zombies? or the zombies only want to kill Tutsis? then I would agree with you). 

And are you saying that they can be racist by accident, but not insightful by accident?  That's just ludicrous. 



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Kasz216 said:
windbane said:
foont said:
Ok. Let's put it this way:

Would it be appropriate to have a game set in a fictional American city (similar to New York, but NOT New York) in which one of your missions in the game is to knock down two tall, identical buildings (or towers, if you will) with a couple of airplanes? Oh, and you play as characters from the middle east. But it's TOTALLY just a coincidence that it looks like 9/11 because the enemies in the buildings are aliens or locusts or goombas or something...

Or would some people be understandably offended by that? I think a lot of people would be, and I think they would be justified in feeling that way.


It's easy to say, "It's fictional. You're just reading too much into it", but that's an answer that too quickly brushes aside much more complex problems and questions.

Shouldn't creators be responsible for the choices they make in their work? Shouldn't audiences be responsible to criticize and discuss?

For me this isn't even an argument about video games, racism, equality or social ills. It's simply a question as to whether or not the imagery in RE5 is potentially offensive.


I don't know if I can make it much clearer than that without launching into a pretentious lecture on semiotics and symbolism, and sounding like a total douchebag instead of just a partial douchebag.



To make that analogy work: the building would have to be infested with ZOMBIES. Furthermore, you'll have to point to a specific event that RE5 mimics. Is it Hotel Rwanda? Is it Blood Diamond (which btw had a good guy with a gun that happened to be white and some bad guys that were black...and the white guy ended up with a black side-kick!)? Were those offensive?

You can't just say "what if a video game depicted this very specific incident?" RE5 is no more offensive than RE4 or RE3 or RE2 or RE1 or RE0 or Code Veronica or Academy Award nominated Blood Diamond. The setting is somewhere in Africa. Some people are black. One of the main characters happens to be a white male.

When is the last time a white male went to Africa and shot a bunch of people, much less zombies? Can you tell me that? I'm not up to date on African wars so there might very well be a specific incident. Perhaps fighting against South African apartide? I'm sure there was at least 1 white guy shooting some black guys. You tell me.

Everything in the world is offensive to someone, we can't help that, but please show me all the black people that are offended that a game in Africa features black people.

 

The zombies are using machetes. The last time a bunch of africans killed a bunch of people not like them with machetes in africa was.... actually probably right at this moment.

Your missing the point.

But sure.

Also people would be offended at the above game.... even if the building were empty, ful of zombies and you crashed a plane into a building in Europe before.

 

It is not a specific event, it is the same as RE4.  And the complaint of the game from people like N-Gai Croal, the only black guy to complain about the game to my knowledge, is that it was racist to americans, not Africans.

So because you and foont can't convince us that it is too offensive because it's racist, now you are taking the angle that it's too similar to real African suffering.  I don't think any African is suffering from a disease that turns them into zombies.

But if Africans are so offended, please show me the game sales there and people complaining in an African country about this game.  Your example comparing to 9/11, where my main point is that RE5 is not depicting any specific event, is only really valid in the US.  If the same scenerio happened first in say, Japan, then in RE5 was going to happen in Russia, then I don't think Russians would be offended.  However, that scenerio is so unlikely because most of the time you'd just bomb a building with a plane instead of use the plane.  And if you did use a plane directly you'd eject yourself.  No one but that one specific group of radicals kills themselves.

 



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foont said:

I still feel like some people are missing the point. Let's just look at the imagery. Images in books, movies, and video games are not accidental. They are used for a specific reason. For example, in Star Wars, they intentionally made the Empire visually similar to the German WWI troops and Nazis. Now I'm not saying Star Wars is racist. I'm saying that they used these images on purpose. It wasn't an accident or a coincidence. They did it to make the Empire seem more evil. Hell, German troops in World War I were even called Stormtroopers. This is an artistic choice.

 

This reason people might be offended by RE5 is for a similar reason.

 

So why would some people be offended by this? Maybe because it's too close to home. Maybe because it's in bad taste, or simply innappropriate. Maybe it's just too soon.

 

You can choose to read it however you want. But I don't think we can say that people don't have the right to be offended.

 

My apologies if the bold text seems condescending, I'm just trying to be clear with my intentions.

 

So instead of arguing that it's racist, you are giving up that angle and saying it's offensive to Africans. Those scenes show that it was fine in Star Wars (and KZ2) for using villians similar to Hitler and his army. But I guess we were over WW2 then, huh? I really doubt it.

Africans aren't over genocide in their respective countries, but I really don't think they are going to raise as much ruckus over this game as you are.

 



Kasz216 said:
Euphoria14 said:

No no no.

It was alright before because it was a white person shooting white zombies. Now it is a white person shooting black zombies.

Basically.

If it was a Black person shooting black zombies less people would care.

If it was a Black main character shooting white zombies, people would of claimed racism too likely.  (Though that it was showing black people as violent against white people.)

That and you know.... Africa isn't exactly the greatest place, and considering which part of Africa it's set in... the whole thing seems like it's taking from real life trajedys with ethnic cleansings in the area.

I mean... how would of people reacted had if during Indian resettlment someone wrote a book where all the Americans were infected with a disease that made them savage and wanting to kill anyone not like them.

There are some fair issues with the game being insensitive based on where it's based.

 

Nobody complained when CJ (black) was killing white folks in GTA SA....



drboot said:
Kasz216 said:
Euphoria14 said:

No no no.

It was alright before because it was a white person shooting white zombies. Now it is a white person shooting black zombies.

Basically.

If it was a Black person shooting black zombies less people would care.

If it was a Black main character shooting white zombies, people would of claimed racism too likely. (Though that it was showing black people as violent against white people.)

That and you know.... Africa isn't exactly the greatest place, and considering which part of Africa it's set in... the whole thing seems like it's taking from real life trajedys with ethnic cleansings in the area.

I mean... how would of people reacted had if during Indian resettlment someone wrote a book where all the Americans were infected with a disease that made them savage and wanting to kill anyone not like them.

There are some fair issues with the game being insensitive based on where it's based.

 

Nobody complained when CJ (black) was killing white folks in GTA SA....

True, or mobsters killed everyone in The Godfather game, Mafia, or GTA 3.  Mobsters still exist.

 



It is nice to see that this tread turned into a discussion, and has moved away from the thoughtless dismissals at the beginning.



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windbane said:

Africans are over genocide in their respective countries, but I really don't think they are going to raise as much ruckus over this game as you are.

 

Really? That's your argument? I really hope there was supposed to be a "not" in there somewhere.

 

Also, why does it matter who raises a ruckus? Why should only Africans be offended by this? I'm offended by this as a human being.

I'm offended because it could potentially perpetuate subterranean fears and prejudices.

 

And anyway, this isn't about who's killing whom and in what context. For me this is simply about the imagery. This is offensive in the same way as Cole Train in Gears of War-- it casually reinforces prejudices.