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Forums - Gaming - Oh Lord Capcom accused of Racism for RE5

Sqrl said:
foont said:

@ Sqrl


So far Resident Evil 5 seems to only say "Racism? What Racism?" And, for me, that's why it bothers me. I guess if we lived in a world without racism, it wouldn't bother me.

Maybe just two different ways of approaching the same problem?

 

Well there is an interesting question there:

What came first the chicken or the egg?

What comes first a world with no racism, or a world where nobody is actively looking for racism?

To be clear racism certainly exists, and as many have pointed out many use that fact illegitimately as a weapon against others.

Perhaps it is two different approaches, but would it make a difference to you if these zombies were an even mixture of different races versus primarily one skin color?

I don't know. In some ways that's more offensive because it's clearly a weak attempt to put a band-aid on the situation (Oh, look, there goes Sheva now!). It's like that episode of South Park with the controversey over the South Park Flag. Maybe the only way we can make it better is to have all races killing each other equally, and not because of the colour of their skin. World peace!

All I was trying to do was to argue why the images in RE5 could be considered potentially offensive. I don't like it when people are legitimately offended by something, and everyone acts as though they shouldn't be offended at all. If people are offended by RE5, I think they are more than justified to feel that way.

As far as Capcom is concerned, what's done is done, and I guess people will interpret this game however they see fit.

If I was Capcom, I would have avoided this whole mess altogether by having Chris Redfield kill zombies in Canada or something. That way no one would be offended, and Canadians would be happy to be in a famous game!

 

 



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Kasz216 said:
When mirroring real life current problems it is insensitive and racist for the hero to be of different origin due to the fact that it suggests some other group holds all the answers, or is the only ones who can set it straight.

The people who "bring it up" are the people who produce the content in the first place. They are the ones who made said distinctions whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Either these things (skin color, sex, etc..) matter or they don't.  If you don't think race or sex matters then it makes no difference what someone's skin color or sex is regardless of what they are doing or who they are helping/hurting or who they are being helped/hurt by. 

If you honestly believe that someone shouldn't help others simply because it might "suggests" something then we have a fundamental disagreement.  I patently and flatly reject the concept that someone should be labeled racists or sexist for innocently and honestly helping another group of people.

Now, the people who "bring it up" are not simply the ones who make the content.  The people who "bring it up" are the ones who insist that the race or sex of the character(s) actually matters.  The people who "bring it up" are quite literally the people who make an issue out of the race or sex....if the people who made the content believe that the race or sex matters then they brought it up, if they didn't see where it mattered and made their choices from other reasonings then they aren't.

PS - Out for a bit, so won't be responding for a while.

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
foont said:
Sqrl said:
foont said:

@ Sqrl


So far Resident Evil 5 seems to only say "Racism? What Racism?" And, for me, that's why it bothers me. I guess if we lived in a world without racism, it wouldn't bother me.

Maybe just two different ways of approaching the same problem?

 

Well there is an interesting question there:

What came first the chicken or the egg?

What comes first a world with no racism, or a world where nobody is actively looking for racism?

To be clear racism certainly exists, and as many have pointed out many use that fact illegitimately as a weapon against others.

Perhaps it is two different approaches, but would it make a difference to you if these zombies were an even mixture of different races versus primarily one skin color?

I don't know. In some ways that's more offensive because it's clearly a weak attempt to put a band-aid on the situation (Oh, look, there goes Sheva now!). It's like that episode of South Park with the controversey over the South Park Flag. Maybe the only way we can make it better is to have all races killing each other equally, and not because of the colour of their skin. World peace!

All I was trying to do was to argue why the images in RE5 could be considered potentially offensive. I don't like it when people are legitimately offended by something, and everyone acts as though they shouldn't be offended at all. If people are offended by RE5, I think they are more than justified to feel that way.

As far as Capcom is concerned, what's done is done, and I guess people will interpret this game however they see fit.

If I was Capcom, I would have avoided this whole mess altogether by having Chris Redfield kill zombies in Canada or something. That way no one would be offended, and Canadians would be happy to be in a famous game!

 

 

 

I don't think people shouldn't get offended (zomg double negative), I think when they see something that offends them they should examine the issue.  If they honestly believe the motivations behind the acts are race and/or sex then they should absolutely be offended. But if they find that the motivations seem to be something different they should introspect on their own baises in their initial reaction.  It's self-correction...it's ok to form an early opinion and then refine the opinion with new information as it comes.  It's not ok to form an early opinion and refuse to examine new information and stick to your first impression.  Maybe you find that the motivations were innocent but you're still offended....that's legitimate too, but you don't call them racist or sexist and you should recognize that your position is highly subjective.

As for Capcom avoiding the issue by going to Canada...I couldn't disagree more, I'm glad they made this choice because it brings the issue front and center for people to discuss.  Which as I said is the only way we are ever going to make progress on this as a society.

Ok now I'm out =P 4 rly.



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:
Kasz216 said:
When mirroring real life current problems it is insensitive and racist for the hero to be of different origin due to the fact that it suggests some other group holds all the answers, or is the only ones who can set it straight.

The people who "bring it up" are the people who produce the content in the first place. They are the ones who made said distinctions whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Either these things (skin color, sex, etc..) matter or they don't.  If you don't think race or sex matters then it makes no difference what someone's skin color or sex is regardless of what they are doing or who they are helping/hurting or who they are being helped/hurt by. 

If you honestly believe that someone shouldn't help others simply because it might "suggests" something then we have a fundamental disagreement.  I patently and flatly reject the concept that someone should be labeled racists or sexist for innocently and honestly helping another group of people.

Now, the people who "bring it up" are not simply the ones who make the content.  The people who "bring it up" are the ones who insist that the race or sex of the character(s) actually matters.  The people who "bring it up" are quite literally the people who make an issue out of the race or sex....if the people who made the content believe that the race or sex matters then they brought it up, if they didn't see where it mattered and made their choices from other reasonings then they aren't.

PS - Out for a bit, so won't be responding for a while.

 

It's not helping people that's the problem.

It's fictionally helping people.

It's that the person thought of to fix the situation is of another race.

 

 



cause theyre a bunch of selfish boogers. You cant do anything anymore it seems without someone getting offended



Long Live SHIO!

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Sqrl said:

I don't think people shouldn't get offended (zomg double negative), I think when they see something that offends them they should examine the issue. If they honestly believe the motivations behind the acts are race and/or sex then they should absolutely be offended. But if they find that the motivations seem to be something different they should introspect on their own baises in their initial reaction. It's self-correction...it's ok to form an early opinion and then refine the opinion with new information as it comes. It's not ok to form an early opinion and refuse to examine new information and stick to your first impression. Maybe you find that the motivations were innocent but you're still offended....that's legitimate too, but you don't call them racist or sexist and you should recognize that your position is highly subjective.

As for Capcom avoiding the issue by going to Canada...I couldn't disagree more, I'm glad they made this choice because it brings the issue front and center for people to discuss. Which as I said is the only way we are ever going to make progress on this as a society.

Ok now I'm out =P 4 rly.

Again, I think we're saying very similar things but with different words.

The reason I jumped into this thread was because it bothered me that people so briskly brushed off the idea that people found some of the imagery in RE5 offensive, as though this isn't a legitimate concern.

We live in a world of images. And video games are a visual medium. If we don't acknowledge that images have the power to incite joy, sadness, anger, and outrage, then we're doing a disservice to the medium that we all enjoy so much.

Racism doesn't have to come in the form of lynching or refusing to give a cab ride to someone. Racism can simply be images or words that perpetuate tired and outdated ideas about other cultures and peoples.

Example: My grandmother still refers to black people as Negroes. She doesn't mean it to be offensive. She doesn't hate anyone based on the colour of their skin. Is this still offensive? To many people it absolutely, and justifiably, is. Is it innappropriate? Definitely.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, the imagery in Resident Evil 5 is my grandmother.

 



Kasz216 said:
When mirroring real life current problems it is insensitive and racist for the hero to be of different origin due to the fact that it suggests some other group holds all the answers, or is the only ones who can set it straight.

The people who "bring it up" are the people who produce the content in the first place. They are the ones who made said distinctions whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Well, what about the fact that Chris Redfield has experience dealing with Umbrella and zombies, which I seriously doubt these villagers do?  I presume that's why he's there in the first place -- in connection with that stuff. 

Admittedly it would have been nicer if the black character was a local ... but eh.  The white guy isn't a big deal from this angle.  Unless you're saying no outsiders should ever come in and save the day when helpless people are getting oppressed in fiction?  I don't want to be derisive but I really strongly disagree with what I can see of your position. 



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Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
When mirroring real life current problems it is insensitive and racist for the hero to be of different origin due to the fact that it suggests some other group holds all the answers, or is the only ones who can set it straight.

The people who "bring it up" are the people who produce the content in the first place. They are the ones who made said distinctions whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Well, what about the fact that Chris Redfield has experience dealing with Umbrella and zombies, which I seriously doubt these villagers do?  I presume that's why he's there in the first place -- in connection with that stuff. 

Admittedly it would have been nicer if the black character was a local ... but eh.  The white guy isn't a big deal from this angle.  Unless you're saying no outsiders should ever come in and save the day when helpless people are getting oppressed in fiction?  I don't want to be derisive but I really strongly disagree with what I can see of your position. 

When helpless people are being opressed in fiction that mirrors real life actually occuring events... yes there should be no outside hero.

I mean... you've yet to adress this arguement at all.

That the RE5 is mirroring real life genocide that's happening.... right now.  At this moment.



Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
When mirroring real life current problems it is insensitive and racist for the hero to be of different origin due to the fact that it suggests some other group holds all the answers, or is the only ones who can set it straight.

The people who "bring it up" are the people who produce the content in the first place. They are the ones who made said distinctions whether intentionally or unintentionally.
Well, what about the fact that Chris Redfield has experience dealing with Umbrella and zombies, which I seriously doubt these villagers do?  I presume that's why he's there in the first place -- in connection with that stuff.

Admittedly it would have been nicer if the black character was a local ... but eh.  The white guy isn't a big deal from this angle.  Unless you're saying no outsiders should ever come in and save the day when helpless people are getting oppressed in fiction?  I don't want to be derisive but I really strongly disagree with what I can see of your position.
When helpless people are being opressed in fiction that mirrors real life actually occuring events... yes there should be no outside hero.

I mean... you've yet to adress this arguement at all.

That the RE5 is mirroring real life genocide that's happening.... right now.  At this moment.

Why not?  Don't we want to show people helping people from other cultures?  I mean, if the game didn't have anyone coming in from the outside, wouldn't that imply that nobody cares when it happens in Africa, as opposed to elsewhere?  **

Anyway, I think "mirror" might be a bit of a strong word, given that AFAIK the only comparison you can make is "a bunch of people (loosely defined) killing (or more likely converting) a bunch of people".  

And if I was going to give more credit than I think Capcom deserves I might say it could make for an interesting social commentary to depict people who participate in genocide as slavering* undead morons.  (I'm assuming you don't put Chris in the "genocidal" role.)

*No relation to that other word(s).  See "niggardly". 

** [edit:  And it would sure make it a lot harder to move the overarching plot along if nobody in RE5 had a damn clue what had been going on elsewhere, and nobody in the middle of nowhere in Africa is likely to be up to date on secret illegal corporate misdeeds.]



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
When mirroring real life current problems it is insensitive and racist for the hero to be of different origin due to the fact that it suggests some other group holds all the answers, or is the only ones who can set it straight.

The people who "bring it up" are the people who produce the content in the first place. They are the ones who made said distinctions whether intentionally or unintentionally.
Well, what about the fact that Chris Redfield has experience dealing with Umbrella and zombies, which I seriously doubt these villagers do?  I presume that's why he's there in the first place -- in connection with that stuff.

Admittedly it would have been nicer if the black character was a local ... but eh.  The white guy isn't a big deal from this angle.  Unless you're saying no outsiders should ever come in and save the day when helpless people are getting oppressed in fiction?  I don't want to be derisive but I really strongly disagree with what I can see of your position.
When helpless people are being opressed in fiction that mirrors real life actually occuring events... yes there should be no outside hero.

I mean... you've yet to adress this arguement at all.

That the RE5 is mirroring real life genocide that's happening.... right now.  At this moment.

Why not?  Don't we want to show people helping people from other cultures?  I mean, if the game didn't have anyone coming in from the outside, wouldn't that imply that nobody cares when it happens in Africa, as opposed to elsewhere? 

Anyway, I think "mirror" might be a bit of a strong word, given that AFAIK the only comparison you can make is "a bunch of people (loosely defined) killing (or more likely converting) a bunch of people".  

And if I was going to give more credit than I think Capcom deserves I might say it could make for an interesting social commentary to depict people who participate in genocide as slavering* undead morons.  (I'm assuming you don't put Chris in the "genocidal" role.)

*No relation to that other word(s).  See "niggardly". 


I think it's an unintentionally mirroring but it's there.

Have you seen the trailer I posted there?  Look at that then read or watch depictions of crowds and how the rulers spur people into this stuff.

It's near identical.