By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Oh Lord Capcom accused of Racism for RE5

Kasz216 said:
Sqrl said:

I don't think your example is as comparative as you do.  There is a rather large difference between slaughtering live innocent people in a gas chamber and protecting yourself from zombies.  If the folks being put into gas chambers were zombies I have no problem with it because they aren't people they are zombies.

The only real issue I see that can be made is the dehumanizing of a culture by depicting them as zombies, but I think the argument fails to gain merit by the fact that almost every culture has had this exact same depiction made in this very game series.  If it were a consistant depiction of a race of people as savage and ravenous thier might be a point.  But once they made the choice to go to Africa for this game I think it would be more racist for them to change representated skin colors with the issue of racism in mind than it would for them to simply make the most accurate setting they could, or any other goal they had in mind as a developer and not a group of people trying to avoid being labeled racists.

I believe that asking people to make these changes promotes racism as it seperates and distinguishes groups and tells people that you're supposed to treat them differently.  You don't bring about a world where people implicitly believe and act on the basis of equality by promoting this sort of distinction where one group or another is or isn't acceptable.

On the last point I quoted, I have to say that I have a hard time seeing how anyone who is not a racist would pull that same meaning from the imagery.  A racist who sees the imagery would surely come to those thoughts but then the game isn't promoting it, the person's worldview is.  A person who views skin color as most view hair color wouldn't see it as anything but human on human violence...and really it is my opinion that the only legitimate point to be made here is that this game contains human on human violence...the skin color of those people simply shouldn't matter and I think acting as if it does or should promotes racism far more than anything else being discussed here.

PS - Welcome to the boards =)

But heres the thing.  Unlike the US or Spain.....

these things DO happen in Africa.  They're happening right now.

It seems kinda sick to make a game where your shooting a bunch of genocidal zombies in an area where people are doing nothing about a bunch of genocidal people.

 

So because something similar is happening it is racism?  I don't know that I follow the logic there.  

I agree these are sensitive issues with a lot of emotion to them, and it may refresh the tragedy for people and cause a large emotional reaction....but how does that make this racism?

As I said quite clearly in my post, a legitimate argument can be made on the issue of the violence,  but my point was in bringing race into that discussion and I don't see how you contradict me at all....unless I misread your intentions.

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
Around the Network
foont said:
@Squrl

I think we might be saying the same thing. I meant that the image (removed from the context of the game's storyline), perpetuates and calls to mind a history of racial imagery. Like you said, it dehumanizes a culture.

For my imaginary game-set-in-Poland example, let's pretend that the enemies are still zombies-- that doesn't make the image less offensive. Images can carry a lot of weight, symbolism, and meaning, and I think that's how the controversy over RE5 started.

Here's an off-topic non-game example: I once went to a student art show, where the artist had arranged white pointed paper cones into a spiral shape on the floor. She thought it was just a pretty design, but it REALLY looked like a swastika made of Ku Klux hoods. She didn't mean for it to be offensive or racist, but it was possible to read the image that way, and people did. It's not her fault, but it didn't change the fact that a lot of people viewed it that way.

Also, did you just imply that I'm a racist? :) Well, I hope I'm not, but I think we live in a world where racism still exists, so it's impossible for anyone, not to be inadvertently racist sometimes (other than a child as pure as fresh fallen snow, untainted by the world).

Nope not implying that people are racists at all, but I do think that your honest attempt to combat one type of racism promotes another type of racism.

On the issue of imagery I would ask if people being offended is all that terrible?  The very point I'm making is that there are things people view as racist within the context of their own views that are not implicitly racist and that they are in fact promoting racism in their attacks against it.  If you are against racism you should be against the denigration of any and all skin colors....not just one at a time.

The overreaction and offense to certain, but not all, imagery is a roadblock to true equality, and people getting offended and then having a good honest debate is the only way people are going to figure out as a society which is which.  And any time I see a situation where someone says, for example, it's not OK to use blacks in a situation I wonder why it's ok to use any other type of person...if we are equal then there should be no difference.

Yes there is strong emotional connections to issues, but you don't heal those issues by avoiding them and ignoring them.  Like the emotional damage of someone you love dearly dying you have to deal with it and eventually move on.  You can't break down into tears every time someone mentions them 15 years later.   Everyone is so afraid of the "racists" label that they think it's much easier to just avoid the issue and to urge others to avoid the issue, than to actually deal with it.

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:
Kasz216 said:
Sqrl said:

I don't think your example is as comparative as you do.  There is a rather large difference between slaughtering live innocent people in a gas chamber and protecting yourself from zombies.  If the folks being put into gas chambers were zombies I have no problem with it because they aren't people they are zombies.

The only real issue I see that can be made is the dehumanizing of a culture by depicting them as zombies, but I think the argument fails to gain merit by the fact that almost every culture has had this exact same depiction made in this very game series.  If it were a consistant depiction of a race of people as savage and ravenous thier might be a point.  But once they made the choice to go to Africa for this game I think it would be more racist for them to change representated skin colors with the issue of racism in mind than it would for them to simply make the most accurate setting they could, or any other goal they had in mind as a developer and not a group of people trying to avoid being labeled racists.

I believe that asking people to make these changes promotes racism as it seperates and distinguishes groups and tells people that you're supposed to treat them differently.  You don't bring about a world where people implicitly believe and act on the basis of equality by promoting this sort of distinction where one group or another is or isn't acceptable.

On the last point I quoted, I have to say that I have a hard time seeing how anyone who is not a racist would pull that same meaning from the imagery.  A racist who sees the imagery would surely come to those thoughts but then the game isn't promoting it, the person's worldview is.  A person who views skin color as most view hair color wouldn't see it as anything but human on human violence...and really it is my opinion that the only legitimate point to be made here is that this game contains human on human violence...the skin color of those people simply shouldn't matter and I think acting as if it does or should promotes racism far more than anything else being discussed here.

PS - Welcome to the boards =)

But heres the thing.  Unlike the US or Spain.....

these things DO happen in Africa.  They're happening right now.

It seems kinda sick to make a game where your shooting a bunch of genocidal zombies in an area where people are doing nothing about a bunch of genocidal people.

 

So because something similar is happening it is racism?  I don't know that I follow the logic there.  

I agree these are sensitive issues with a lot of emotion to them, and it may refresh the tragedy for people and cause a large emotional reaction....but how does that make this racism?

As I said quite clearly in my post, a legitimate argument can be made on the issue of the violence,  but my point was in bringing race into that discussion and I don't see how you contradict me at all....unless I misread your intentions.

 

It's because of who is coming in to fix the problems.  It suggests that such problems are beyond the reach of the native people within.  Which isn't a problem when fictional, but when the problems are very real and ongoing...

For example.  Lets take the pay discimation problems that women face.

What if there is a game where this problem is suddenly fixed by a guy because all the women are too incompetant to stop it and change things from going on?

Or a game set during the Indian Removal act of US history... and the Indians are saved by some Asian person who came from nowhere as the Indians are helpless in stopping it.

 



Kasz216 said:
Sqrl said:
Kasz216 said:

But heres the thing.  Unlike the US or Spain.....

these things DO happen in Africa.  They're happening right now.

It seems kinda sick to make a game where your shooting a bunch of genocidal zombies in an area where people are doing nothing about a bunch of genocidal people.

 

So because something similar is happening it is racism?  I don't know that I follow the logic there.  

I agree these are sensitive issues with a lot of emotion to them, and it may refresh the tragedy for people and cause a large emotional reaction....but how does that make this racism?

As I said quite clearly in my post, a legitimate argument can be made on the issue of the violence,  but my point was in bringing race into that discussion and I don't see how you contradict me at all....unless I misread your intentions.

 

It's because of who is coming in to fix the problems.  It suggests that such problems are beyond the reach of the native people within.  Which isn't a problem when fictional, but when the problems are very real and ongoing...

For example.  Lets take the pay discimation problems that women face.

What if there is a game where this problem is suddenly fixed by a guy because all the women are too incompetant to stop it and change things from going on?

Or a game set during the Indian Removal act of US history... and the Indians are saved by some Asian person who came from nowhere as the Indians are helpless in stopping it.

 

I'm really having a hard time following your point, are you saying that the game is racist or presumptuous?

Your examples I'm even more confused by...so you're saying games can't have heroes because it might make the people they save feel inferior because their own racism/sexism tinged worldview forces them to identify the racial/sexual differences between them as important?  Sorry but I reject that outright. 

I would again point out that these people would be inherently promoting sexism and racism respectively because they are placing importance on the sex and race of the people who help them in the example. The entire point is that you have one person helping/saving other people. Whichever side/group/person brings up the racial/sexual differences and tries to place importance in those differences is the one promoting racism/sexism, period.

 

 



To Each Man, Responsibility

@ Sqrl

I agree, we shouldn't just focus on equality for one group of people at a time. Equality should be for everyone, and yes we need to get over things, and yes we need to move on from the past.

Personally, I love it when people are offended. Like you said,it makes people think. It makes them talk. That's why Archie Bunker's racism was so great in "All in the Family"-- it was used with irony, and it made people talk and think.

I don't get that same sense of irony from Resident Evil 5 yet. Maybe when I play the game all the way through I will. We'll see.

But as it stands right now, RE5's imagery makes me think of something like blackface in the early 20th century. It perpetuates derogatory ideas. And that can be dangerous.

"All in the Family" was direct with its racism. It loudly proclaimed "Racism still exists and that's not OK!"

So far Resident Evil 5 seems to only say "Racism? What Racism?" And, for me, that's why it bothers me. I guess if we lived in a world without racism, it wouldn't bother me.

Maybe just two different ways of approaching the same problem?



Around the Network
--OkeyDokey-- said:
lolz, half the zombies in the demo are white.

That's because Capcom changed the game after the first time this came up.  That was at least six months ago IIRC.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

When mirroring real life current problems it is insensitive and racist for the hero to be of different origin due to the fact that it suggests some other group holds all the answers, or is the only ones who can set it straight.

The people who "bring it up" are the people who produce the content in the first place. They are the ones who made said distinctions whether intentionally or unintentionally.



foont said:

@ Sqrl


So far Resident Evil 5 seems to only say "Racism? What Racism?" And, for me, that's why it bothers me. I guess if we lived in a world without racism, it wouldn't bother me.

Maybe just two different ways of approaching the same problem?

 

Well there is an interesting question there:

What came first the chicken or the egg?

What comes first a world with no racism, or a world where nobody is actively looking for racism?

To be clear racism certainly exists, and as many have pointed out many use that fact illegitimately as a weapon against others.

Perhaps it is two different approaches, but would it make a difference to you if these zombies were an even mixture of different races versus primarily one skin color?



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:
foont said:

@ Sqrl


So far Resident Evil 5 seems to only say "Racism? What Racism?" And, for me, that's why it bothers me. I guess if we lived in a world without racism, it wouldn't bother me.

Maybe just two different ways of approaching the same problem?

 

Well there is an interesting question there:

What came first the chicken or the egg?

What comes first a world with no racism, or a world where nobody is actively looking for racism?

To be clear racism certainly exists, and as many have pointed out many use that fact illegitimately as a weapon against others.

Perhaps it is two different approaches, but would it make a difference to you if these zombies were an even mixture of different races versus primarily one skin color?

They are aren't they?



It makes me a little sad and a little angry that many of the posters in this thread have dismissed this idea without a second thought.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)