Yes, and Im saying that regardless of people being audiophiles, people enjoy the newer tech. Would anyone now willingly buy a movie on VHS, even though they own a DVD player? No one wants a LACK of quality, they just don't know the difference until its presented to them. DLP2 is barely even supported in new surround receivers anymore, so why should our media systems support it too?

Regardless, this is neither here nor there.

VHS vs DVD is not a valid comparison. DVD didn't overtake VHS because of quality. It overtook it because of ease of use. 5.1 is not something that is easier to use for the consumer than pro logic II.

People don't enjoy newer tech. They enjoy tech that makes things easier for the. Both 5.1 and PLII require surround sound speakers to get more sound than just stereo speakers, right? Then the fact is that most people don't have surround sound, so they can't even get the full benefit of either sound format, therefore, PLII is only something that audiophiles hate, not the mainstream.

That's why Nintendo didn't bother to upgrade. Not the legacy, but that they knew most people cared more about the games than how they sound on speakers they don't buy.

Nintendo will likely upgrade to something higher, but only because it would cost little to do so, not because the old format has lower quality.

I know audio is your specialty. I like to draw pictures, so I know picture quality. But I know damn well people aren't clamoring for HD video. That's not their interest.

it would of been so much better had it included splitscreen, zombie mode and more online modes

Ease of use? People found using VHS tapes difficult? I think it was the convenient technology of not having to rewind, skipping through chapters of a movie, etc that were the big selling points for DVD over VHS.

Not only audiophiles dislike PLII, developers do too, unless they are not even bothering with surround sound. Its much harder to give spatial coloring using a faux-stereo conversion. For example, programming with Direct Sound in Direct X makes it basically a 4 click process to assign a sound to an element in 5.1 digital space, and allow that sound to be amplified or muffled based on its location to the listner and any obstacles between the two points.

Anyway, PLII gets buried next gen, so we'll have to tolerate for a few more years.

"Ease of use? People found using VHS tapes difficult? I think it was the convenient technology of not having to rewind, skipping through chapters of a movie, etc that were the big selling points for DVD over VHS."

That IS ease of use.

^^^ saying ease of use makes it sound like VHS tapes were difficult =)

"^^^ saying ease of use makes it sound like VHS tapes were difficult =)"

No, that would be the phrase "EASY to use". "Ease of use" can apply to two products, just one has a greater ease. 5.1 does not have greater ease to the consumer over 5.1. DVD does provide greater ease of use over VHS. That is why the comparison is bunk.

A better comparison is MPEG-2 HD over VC-1. The latter is better, but since both require HDTVs, neither is intuitive to the consumer.

you're still missing the point.

VCR = put tape in, press play, movie starts.

DVD = put disc in, press play,movie starts (if a menu doesnt pop up instead)

There is no difference in how to use either one. The tech behind discs is that they are readable by a laser, so they don't have to be rewound. This is a convenience, an added feature via the technology. 

As for PL2 vs 5.1, the ease of use is for the developer, the people making the games. You know, the people you want making games for your console. Make their job easier and they'llmake more games for your system.

At any rate, congrats on derailing the thread. =) If you'd like to continue this debate, shoot me a PM and we'll discuss.

I will not take this to PMs, because this is a point that you put in the OP (which is not thread derailment, since it also indirectly addresses your criticism of the sound), therefore it is relevant. The thing is you are not addressing my actual point. I'm discussing the consumers, NOT developers. You want this to be done with, address the point I actually made, which is my claim of why Nintendo stuck with PLII for the Wii. Nothing else. Then we can settle this and move on.

"This is a convenience"

You obviously don't understand the term "ease of use", because that is one of the meanings. 5.1 does not have a convenience on the user end over PLII. No wonder you are dragging this out. You don't even understand the terms I am writing. Ease of use relates to how easy it is to use something. That means something can be hard to use, as in have poor ease use, and something can be easy to use, as in have high ease of use.

VHS has decent ease of use when it comes to playback. You can just stick it in and play, but only if it's rewound. That means either before or after you watch, you have to spend five to twenty minutes, depending on the speed of the player, specialized rewinder. DVD obviously does not do that, so therefore its ease of use is high.

5.1 and PLII have the same playback for users, but both require surround sound speakers. PLII doesn't do surround sound as well, but the fact is that both require extra equipment to use properly (DVD and VHS don't compare, because that extra equipment is needed, not optional). It doesn't matter if the developers get more, the consumers can't just get it inherently on their TVs.

That is why I say Nintendo felt no need to upgrade their sound this generation, and why even if they do next time, consumers might not even care about any kind of surround.

Okay, forget that, and I'll just condense my point. Of course 5.1 has better quality and let's developers do more. The thing is that most consumers don't have the audio equipment to get the most out of PLII. So 5.1 for most consumers is out of the question as well.

That is why Nintendo was in no rush. Same reason as HD graphics.

As for the format going away, it might, but popular or widespread formats go away when they are either obsolete, no longer bought by consumers, or too cost prohibitive compared to something new. The obsolete reason makes sense, but not consumers (since it's included in systems, not something separate), and certainly not cost, since games on the PS2 used PLII (5.1 was only available for DVD playback), and they didn't cost to much to make the audio.

So when the costs for higher formats become negligible over PLII, then PLII will go away. Not having the best sound is not a reason to get rid of it. Heck, some artists look at limited tools as enhancing their work*.

Again, as long as it's not cost prohibitive. The limited size of the DS doesn't really scare developers, unlike the N64 carts.