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Forums - Nintendo - Why does the conduit look so bad?

Words Of Wisdom on 20 January 2009
Gamerace said:
This thread seems kind of pointless to me. At the end of the day the graphics - in and of themselves - are not going to sell The Conduit to anyone, nor Killzone 2 for that matter.

It's all about the gameplay. If they are fun to play then they will sell. People appreciate good graphics, of course and they may enhance sales for both games but unless the gameplay rocks it really doesn't matter what they look like. Look at Lair's sales.

Personally, as long as the Conduit gives come fun run and gun action with IR aiming, I'm getting it. I couldn't care less how it compares to Halo graphically.

Considering the graphics (more than any other factor) have been getting ultra hyped for about a year now from the moment HV released that tech demo, I don't know how anyone could possibly say that with a straight face.



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BTFeather55 on 20 January 2009
dahuman said:
BTFeather55 said:
dahuman said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Senlis said:
Saying that a Wii has the same or slightly better graphics than the XBOX is laughable. The GameCube can produce better graphics than the XBOX if used correctly. Just look at RE4. People tend to look at misleading specifications when it came to the XBOX vs GC debate and then ignore the reality. That is what they do with the Wii also. The Wii is a few times more powerfull than an XBOX graphically speaking.

 

False. there is nothing GC ever had that could match a game liek Ninja Gaiden graphically. Heck, the game looked as good as the PS3 launch titles.

 

The cube can easily do ninja gaiden lol, but that title was xbox exclusive =P raw power wise, the cube was actually stronger than xbox in a lot of cases, it was also able to have higher res textures than the xbox, I didn't want to believe it either until I saw what the cube can do in a lot of the games. You give Wii titles enough funding and they can make real nice looking games on it, a lot of devs just choose not to, and the Wii is actually 3-4 times more powerful than the cube meh so, it's the devs' problem, not really the hardware.

      The Cube wasn't stronger than the xbox.  Its only real advantage over the consoles of that era was its cell shading ability which explains why Windwaker was cell shaded, yet not the realistic Zelda they showcased at TGS 2000.

 

 

I didn't say all the areas were stronger, the console had it's flaws, but it was also true that most of the western devs had absolutely no freakn' idea on how to code a gfx engine properly when it came to the TEV besides people like Factor5. The cube can easily do Ninja Gaiden, the programming would be done from a totally different apporach than doing shaders, shaders offered flexibility which was a strong point for the XboX, but the actual raw performance of the cube did beat xbox in many ways. Looking from a western dev point of view, shaders can make them have custom effects without having to messing with the hardware as much and is easier to develope with, which was a good thing, but that doesn't mean the TEV wasn't able to create similar effects, it just required more effort. Cell-shade ability was one of the features yes, but they only made wind-waker that way because that's what the market was demanding at the time(people were crazy for cell-shaded games, don't ask me why,) or they wouldn't have made Twilight Princess later as a true successor to OT. Like I said, Ninja Gaiden can be done on the cube, but it was exclusive and it would require a total engine rework, not much you can do about that.

 

      If people were crazy about cell shaded games back then the Gamecube would have sold pretty well, but they weren't (Sly Cooper and XIII didn't sell that well either), and every time you were in a place where people were talking about games after the Windwaker came out, you would hear them say, "The new Zelda is out, but I don't like cell-shaded games).



Heavens to Murgatoids.

XiaoMay on 20 January 2009

Hum.


The COnduit looks 2 times better than Halo

 

And GAMEPLAY wise, please ! Think about Wiimote + Nunchuk combo



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im_sneaky on 20 January 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
Gamerace said:
This thread seems kind of pointless to me. At the end of the day the graphics - in and of themselves - are not going to sell The Conduit to anyone, nor Killzone 2 for that matter.

It's all about the gameplay. If they are fun to play then they will sell. People appreciate good graphics, of course and they may enhance sales for both games but unless the gameplay rocks it really doesn't matter what they look like. Look at Lair's sales.

Personally, as long as the Conduit gives come fun run and gun action with IR aiming, I'm getting it. I couldn't care less how it compares to Halo graphically.

Considering the graphics (more than any other factor) have been getting ultra hyped for about a year now from the moment HV released that tech demo, I don't know how anyone could possibly say that with a straight face.

 

QFT. Some people are just falling back to a more easily defendable position. The Conduit doesn't look bad, but it isn't nearly as good-looking as many XBOX games. Also, what happened to the Wii having similar architecture to the GC, therefore making it easier to max out? When the Wiis specs were revealed, that's what people used to say. Now it's just "wait for developers to get a hang of it".



 

 

NJ5 on 20 January 2009
im_sneaky said:

 

QFT. Some people are just falling back to a more easily defendable position. The Conduit doesn't look bad, but it isn't nearly as good-looking as many XBOX games. Also, what happened to the Wii having similar architecture to the GC, therefore making it easier to max out? When the Wiis specs were revealed, that's what people used to say. Now it's just "wait for developers to get a hang of it".

Considering that most 3rd party developers are making Wii games that look worse than GC games, I think it's fair to say that we still have to wait for developers to tap the Wii... The only developers who have consistently made good Wii graphics are Nintendo's first parties.

As for The Conduit, can we please wait for the game to be released?

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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dahuman on 20 January 2009
BTFeather55 said:
dahuman said:
BTFeather55 said:
dahuman said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Senlis said:
Saying that a Wii has the same or slightly better graphics than the XBOX is laughable. The GameCube can produce better graphics than the XBOX if used correctly. Just look at RE4. People tend to look at misleading specifications when it came to the XBOX vs GC debate and then ignore the reality. That is what they do with the Wii also. The Wii is a few times more powerfull than an XBOX graphically speaking.

 

False. there is nothing GC ever had that could match a game liek Ninja Gaiden graphically. Heck, the game looked as good as the PS3 launch titles.

 

The cube can easily do ninja gaiden lol, but that title was xbox exclusive =P raw power wise, the cube was actually stronger than xbox in a lot of cases, it was also able to have higher res textures than the xbox, I didn't want to believe it either until I saw what the cube can do in a lot of the games. You give Wii titles enough funding and they can make real nice looking games on it, a lot of devs just choose not to, and the Wii is actually 3-4 times more powerful than the cube meh so, it's the devs' problem, not really the hardware.

      The Cube wasn't stronger than the xbox.  Its only real advantage over the consoles of that era was its cell shading ability which explains why Windwaker was cell shaded, yet not the realistic Zelda they showcased at TGS 2000.

 

 

I didn't say all the areas were stronger, the console had it's flaws, but it was also true that most of the western devs had absolutely no freakn' idea on how to code a gfx engine properly when it came to the TEV besides people like Factor5. The cube can easily do Ninja Gaiden, the programming would be done from a totally different apporach than doing shaders, shaders offered flexibility which was a strong point for the XboX, but the actual raw performance of the cube did beat xbox in many ways. Looking from a western dev point of view, shaders can make them have custom effects without having to messing with the hardware as much and is easier to develope with, which was a good thing, but that doesn't mean the TEV wasn't able to create similar effects, it just required more effort. Cell-shade ability was one of the features yes, but they only made wind-waker that way because that's what the market was demanding at the time(people were crazy for cell-shaded games, don't ask me why,) or they wouldn't have made Twilight Princess later as a true successor to OT. Like I said, Ninja Gaiden can be done on the cube, but it was exclusive and it would require a total engine rework, not much you can do about that.

 

      If people were crazy about cell shaded games back then the Gamecube would have sold pretty well, but they weren't (Sly Cooper and XIII didn't sell that well either), and every time you were in a place where people were talking about games after the Windwaker came out, you would hear them say, "The new Zelda is out, but I don't like cell-shaded games).

 

xbox didn't sell that well either, those 2 consoles came way late vs PS2 and by then Sony had all the market already, hell I don't even own a gamecube, I'm just not ignorant about what it can do, and I absolutely hated the wind waker zelda style myself, it's about having a broader point of view when it comes to hardwares and what they are able to accomplish from different approaches, much like how different OSes don't work the same way yet they have a lot of the same looking software even if they have different coding features in the older days. Western people didn't like cell shaded as much, I'm aware of that part, it's more an Asian thing, and the cube did sell pretty well in the Asian market where as xbox was more America and some Europe. sigh... my xbox is slowly dying though, damn thing is showing it's age....



Words Of Wisdom on 20 January 2009
NJ5 said:

As for The Conduit, can we please wait for the game to be released?

Games should be equally subject to hype and criticism before and after release IMO.



NJ5 on 20 January 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
NJ5 said:

As for The Conduit, can we please wait for the game to be released?

Games should be equally subject to hype and criticism before and after release IMO.

I mean before declaring whether its graphics are good or bad...

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Viper1 on 20 January 2009
BTFeather55 said:
dahuman said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Senlis said:
Saying that a Wii has the same or slightly better graphics than the XBOX is laughable. The GameCube can produce better graphics than the XBOX if used correctly. Just look at RE4. People tend to look at misleading specifications when it came to the XBOX vs GC debate and then ignore the reality. That is what they do with the Wii also. The Wii is a few times more powerfull than an XBOX graphically speaking.

 

False. there is nothing GC ever had that could match a game liek Ninja Gaiden graphically. Heck, the game looked as good as the PS3 launch titles.

 

The cube can easily do ninja gaiden lol, but that title was xbox exclusive =P raw power wise, the cube was actually stronger than xbox in a lot of cases, it was also able to have higher res textures than the xbox, I didn't want to believe it either until I saw what the cube can do in a lot of the games. You give Wii titles enough funding and they can make real nice looking games on it, a lot of devs just choose not to, and the Wii is actually 3-4 times more powerful than the cube meh so, it's the devs' problem, not really the hardware.

      The Cube wasn't stronger than the xbox.  Its only real advantage over the consoles of that era was its cell shading ability which explains why Windwaker was cell shaded, yet not the realistic Zelda they showcased at TGS 2000.

 

Correct but incorrect.  The Cube was not more powerful overall but it had a fatter texture pipeline, a better lighting renderer, faster RAM and was incredibly efficient.

There are many things the GC could do better than the Xbox could though there are many things the Xbox could do better than the GC.

 

 

HVS could do one thing for The Conduit that would end all these pointless debates.  Better ambient scene lighting.  The enemies now look fantastic and many of the in game props look fantastic (the All Seeing Eye and those portals) but the environment lighting doesn't match the quality placed on those aforementioned things.

I'm hopeful that the environment (which to their credit has already seen some great improvements with better environment textures - though I'd like to see another increase here as well) is getting the focus and will receive the same high end look the enemies and props now have.

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Words Of Wisdom on 20 January 2009
NJ5 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
NJ5 said:

As for The Conduit, can we please wait for the game to be released?

Games should be equally subject to hype and criticism before and after release IMO.

I mean before declaring whether its graphics are good or bad...

That goes against the whole point of releasing screenshots of games in development.

The whole point is to generate excitement as people "ooh" and "ah" over them.  If there's a lot of negativity, it's only because HV put Conduit on a pedastal with their promises.  They've made some hefty claims so naturally there will be a lot more criticism of released material than there would have been otherwise.