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Forums - Gaming - Is the death of non-shooters upon us?

Pristine20 said:
disolitude said:
@Mr. sickVisionz

I know that the market has hit the developers hard but I don't think Ubisoft will lose much money on the new Prince of Persia. Sure it won't be a blickbuster...but the devs made the game they wanted to make, and they hopefully get a little money back.

This happens in every industry. There are metal bands that smoke the "commercial" metal bands in jsut about every category...but because their sound isn't the currently popular one, they will never achieve the success of their inferior peers.

I'm looking at your Linkin Park...

Didn't Prince of persia break a mil? why is it's profitability in question? Surely, they weren't expecting gears 2 sales?

 

I think thats the point of OP. That these non FPS games are not breaking even hence the FPS ones will kill them off. There is no reason to kill off a game genre unless its not making money right...

 



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disolitude said:
Pristine20 said:
disolitude said:
@Mr. sickVisionz

I know that the market has hit the developers hard but I don't think Ubisoft will lose much money on the new Prince of Persia. Sure it won't be a blickbuster...but the devs made the game they wanted to make, and they hopefully get a little money back.

This happens in every industry. There are metal bands that smoke the "commercial" metal bands in jsut about every category...but because their sound isn't the currently popular one, they will never achieve the success of their inferior peers.

I'm looking at your Linkin Park...

Didn't Prince of persia break a mil? why is it's profitability in question? Surely, they weren't expecting gears 2 sales?

 

I think thats the point of OP. That these non FPS games are not breaking even hence the FPS ones will kill them off. There is no reason to kill off a game genre unless its not making money right...

 

Right. Besides, there are tons of FPS games which did poorly as well, people seem to forget that. How much did conflict:denied ops sell? The demo of that game was horribalistic!

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

disolitude said:
@Mr. sickVisionz

I know that the market has hit the developers hard but I don't think Ubisoft will lose much money on the new Prince of Persia. Sure it won't be a blickbuster...but the devs made the game they wanted to make, and they hopefully get a little money back.

This happens in every industry. There are metal bands that smoke the "commercial" metal bands in jsut about every category...but because their sound isn't the currently popular one, they will never achieve the success of their inferior peers.

I'm looking at your Linkin Park...

 

But you know, you can record a music album for $5000.  You can't make a high quality game for that type of money.  Games that are really top notch in graphics, design, sound and voice acting are expensive to make.  You could make some small game like Braid on the cheap, but it'd be a sad say in my mind when shooters were the only genre that get a "big" game with a real deal budget.  Or the only non shooters with a budget all have a number higher than 5 behind their name.



Mr. sickVisionz said:

Fable 2, Mass Effect and Fallout 3, the most successful all had to basically turn the combat into shooting game in order to sell.

 

Fable 2 would have sold just as well as it is selling now, even if they hadn't turned your bow into a gun .  That's just too big of a stretch.



Mr. sickVisionz said:

shio said:
RPGs are more popular than FPS games. I don't see how you can think FPS are more popular.

Munkeh111 said:
Oh yes, and the 3 most anticipated PS3s games for next year are Final Fantasy XIII, Gran Turismo 5, and for the benefit of this argument, God of War 3 (instead of Uncharted 2) and none of those are shooters!!

Those games are hold overs from previous gens.  The fact that the 13th final fantasy game will sell well isn't really resounding proof that RPGs are in top form.  The 5th edition of a PS1 era game isn't really resounding proof that that the racing genre is alive and kicking.  You've listed like the #1 selling games in their respective genre.  Of course the #1 will do well.

But what about #2 and lower.  If you don't have the luxury of being the 5th or 13th sequel to a franchise, will anyone care about your game?

First guy:  Umm...?  Outside of Pokemon (not a 360/PS3 title) and World of Warcraft (again, not a PS3/360 title), RPGs are not popular.  If you make the assumption that consumers speak with their wallets, which they do imo, FPS is by far the most popular 360/PS3 genre.  Maybe Final Fantasy will sell alot, but thats like the only one... and its the 13th sequel.  What about a game thats not as entrenched as that?


Fable 2, Mass Effect and Fallout 3, the most successful all had to basically turn the combat into shooting game in order to sell.

Someone else mentioned that the world is more than america... but what good does it do me to talk about all the JPN only and Europe-only games.  Also, look at those sales charts.  If you replace US football with soccer, the EU/Others chart is the same as the US one.

You don't know what you're talking about. MMORPGs eat FPS for breakfast, WoW has 11.5 millions people playing today alone, and then there's the rest of the crew: Warhammer Online, FFXI, EVE Online, City of Heroes, etc... then you have the dozens of millions of people playing F2P MMORPGs.... then you have the millions of people playing Single-player WRPGs... then you have the JRPG fans....

RPGs are bigger than shooters. Hell, I think MMORPGs alone are bigger than shooters.

To be fairer, Shooters is not a genre but a sub-genre of Action. If we were to compare RPG and Action genres, then I think Action would win.

 



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Guitar Hero and Rock Band wave hello!



The 360 is the most weighted towards the genre. I'd go on record and say that 4 of the 5 best selling games in 2009 will be the following:

Halo ODST
Resident Evil 5
Call of Duty 6
Halo Wars

Of those 4, 3 are shooters. Last year, the top 5 games released on 360 were:

Gears of War 2
Grand Theft Auto 4
Call of Duty 5
Fable 2
Rainbow Six Vegas 2

So 4 of 5 were shooters last year, and it's entirely possible that the same will happen again this year. Of course, these shooters do take different flavors: some are first person, some third, some are spiced with "sandbox" play, but if you don't like picking up guns and shooting people, the vast majority of the big games on the 360 won't interest you.

With all that said, I got plenty of use out of my 360 last year (I enjoyed Fable 2, Ninja Gaiden 2 was disappointing but still fun, Braid was my GotY, Castle Crashers was fun, and I love Netflix so so much), but I recognize that my tastes are eccentric for a 360 gamer and for the major blockbusters, the offerings are fairly skimpy if you don't like to blow stuff up. I don't think this is much different than minigame compilations for the Wii: they come in different flavors (sports, party, theme) but if you dislike the genre you're in trouble. I'll do a listing of those in just a second.



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The top 5 Wii Games released last year were:

Wii Fit (technically released in Japan in 07, but let's not quibble)
Mario Kart Wii
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Wii Music
Animal Crossing

That's 1.5 minigame compilations, if we include Wii Fit as a "minigame" compilation, which it is, and generously consider Wii Music to be 1/2 music game and 1/2 minigame. The others are music game, racing game, brawler, and sim.

Thus, it appears I am wrong, and the Wii genuinely is more diverse in terms of genre. Now, in terms of publisher, we've got a different story. Top 5 games on 360 are:

1x Activision Blizzard
2x Microsoft Game Studios
1x Ubisoft
1x Take Two Interactive

Top 5 Wii games are:

5x Nintendo

Grossly simplied conclusion: the 360 is great at letting a many different companies produce a single type of game, while the Wii is great at letting a single company produce many different types of games.



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The Non shooter genre will never die out. It's all supply and demand. Demand for shooters goes up meaning more opportunity to sell, more people will invest in making shooters. The more people invest in developing shooters, the bigger the competition, the harder it is to sell. The harder it is to sell, the less people will invest in making shooters.

The same can be said for non shooters. The less demand for non shooters the less people will invest in making non shooters(move their resources to shooters), the less people investing in shooters means the less the competition and thus the greater chances of selling as a non shooter.

That's why it's all cyclical. Of course the demand for a genre also depends on the quality of games being invested in that genre. All it takes is a few games in a particular genre that is being ignored to sell well and it will start a shift in resources to that genre. And it will have a snowball effect. I think that's what is going on right now with the shooter "genre". When a few of these big budget shooter games start to not become profitable because of too much competition then the trend will start to move back a bit. Hopefully the success of games like God Of War, Halo Wars, Final Fantasy, Little Big Planet, Street Fighter IV and Assassins Creed will start this trend.



Bodhesatva said:

<snip>

Double posted 10 minutes later?