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Forums - Microsoft - PS3 and 360 are equally powered.

From an IGN interview:

Chip Architect Speaks About Xbox 360 and PS3 Creation

But which is more powerful in the end?

January 16, 2009 - Gamasutra.com secured an interview with David Shippy who was the chief architect of the power processing unit for the Cell (the engine that drives the PS3). The chip began the research and design process in 2000 when Sony asked IBM for an "order of magnitude increase in processing performance." Ironically it was that very ambition and the design that followed that would one day be the foundation for Microsoft's Xbox 360.

Shippy describes the design goals as shooting for a "supercomputer on a chip" and says "We came along with Cell and we were double the frequency of any PC out there." Then in 2003 Microsoft comes to IBM and, much like Sony, asked them to design a chip unlike anything that was currently on the market. Naturally, IBM showed The Big M their latest and greatest tech which, at that time, was the multi-core "road map" that was used to create what would eventually become the Cell. Keep in mind, that all of this original technology was originally financed by Sony and Toshiba for use in the PS3.

Shippy maintains that Microsoft never got a look at the actual Cell processor and maintains that it was IBM's right to sell the technology to other platforms, such as the Xbox 360, but also states, "The Cell itself and the fundamental architecture that went into that -- that was all proprietary for PS3."

Even still, the fact remains that Xbox 360 chip designers and PS3 chip designers were, at one time, working side-by-side with one another at IBM. Shippy details distaste that developed between the two teams, "when this whole Xbox thing came in, there were certainly a lot of guys -- even on my team -- that were fairly upset about it."

But when asked the flame war inducing question, "which console is actually more powerful?"

Shippy tells Gamasutra, "I'm going to have to answer with an 'it depends.' Again, they're completely different models. So in the PS3, you've got this Cell chip which has massive parallel processing power, the PowerPC core, multiple SPU cores… it's got a GPU that is, in the model here, processing more in the Cell chip and less in the GPU. So that's one processing paradigm -- a heterogeneous paradigm."

"With the Xbox 360, you've got more of a traditional multi-core system, and you've got three PowerPC cores, each of them having dual threads -- so you've got six threads running there, at least in the CPU. Six threads in Xbox 360, and eight or nine threads in the PS3 -- but then you've got to factor in the GPU," Shippy explains. "The GPU is highly sophisticated in the Xbox 360."

"At the end of the day, when you put them all together, depending on the software, I think they're pretty equal."


Shippy then goes on to dissect each console's flaws: for the Xbox 360 it was the initial heatsink and cooling problems and for the PS3 it's the coding issues experienced by developers. While Shippy was not directly involved in the programming of the Xbox 360's power consumption, his best guess is that Microsoft brought their system specs right up to the edge of functioning properly and melting down which Shippy describes as "playing with fire."

On the PS3's supposed programming issues Shippy says it's "definitely a new paradigm" but claims that once developers wrap their head around the nuances of the system, they can actually get impressive results for "low-level coding."




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This thread can go far if past similar ones are an indication.

I'll just stick with the opinion I've had for more than a year... they're pretty close and Microsoft was the smart one for sticking with a cheaper and easier to use architecture. The PS3 might show a bit more power in a few years, but it will be largely irrelevant.

I don't think Sony expected this though... they probably expected to be leaps and bounds above both the other consoles.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:
This thread can go far if past similar ones are an indication.

I'll just stick with the opinion I've had for more than a year... they're pretty close and Microsoft was the smart one for sticking with a cheaper and easier to use architecture.

 

Yeah, I know this subject has been posted before, but this was a story dated from today and it's from a guy who helped develop the Cell.  I hope I'm not double posting, but I didn't see anything else on this interview.




If this thread confirms anything: it's that sony would have to think twice before working with IBM in the future.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Domicinator said:

 

Yeah, I know this subject has been posted before, but this was a story dated from today and it's from a guy who helped develop the Cell.  I hope I'm not double posting, but I didn't see anything else on this interview.

No I don't think you're double posting, and I didn't mean to criticize the fact that you created the thread.

Yes, this source is interesting (even though I replied pretty fast I did scan through his opinion).

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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worthless thread..seriously...
developers already said that the ps3 and 360 has there own unique power..
we all kno the ps3 is stronger in terms of raw power and pushing out good good Grpxh

EPIC FAIL!!!!



Currently waiting on : killzone 2 and everything else after it..day one purchase baby

By the way, a comment on this:


On the PS3's supposed programming issues Shippy says it's "definitely a new paradigm" but claims that once developers wrap their head around the nuances of the system, they can actually get impressive results for "low-level coding."

This low-level coding that he mentions here consists of using assembly code instead of a high-level/easier language like C. Essentially, programming the CPU directly without any significant intermediate steps (hence the low-level name).

Now, I'm not a professional games developer, but I do a lot of low-level coding at my job... It's very time consuming and we only do it for small but performance-crucial sections of the code. It costs a lot of time and effort to optimize a lot of code in this way, but the results are usually great (easily making some of those sections 10 times faster or more).

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

He was so on the fence its unbelievable!



I hope my 360 doesn't RRoD
         "Suck my balls!" - Tag courtesy of Fkusmot

star_city said:
worthless thread..seriously...
developers already said that the ps3 and 360 has there own unique power..
we all kno the ps3 is stronger in terms of raw power and pushing out good good Grpxh

EPIC FAIL!!!!

 

A.  I didn't write the interview, I just posted it.

B.  Contrary to your comment, the guy in the above article was the chief architect for Sony's system.  Therefore, his comments are anything but worthless.  Considering all the the things that get posted on this forum, I would think the chief architect of the guts of the PS3 would probably be considered a knowledgeable source.  But that's just me.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Who's he to say, right?  He just designed the damn thing.

C.  No, this interview sort of disproves the "raw power" thing.  What it's really saying is that there is give and take on each system.  Pros and cons.  Hits and misses.  Certain software will take advantage of one better than the other, and vice versa.  Just because the PS3 can fold protein does not mean it is the ultimate gaming machine.  My calculator can do long division, but that doesn't mean I can play Tetris on it.




Domicinator said:
star_city said:
worthless thread..seriously...
developers already said that the ps3 and 360 has there own unique power..
we all kno the ps3 is stronger in terms of raw power and pushing out good good Grpxh

EPIC FAIL!!!!

 

A.  I didn't write the interview, I just posted it.

B.  Contrary to your comment, the guy in the above article was the chief architect for Sony's system.  Therefore, his comments are anything but worthless.  Considering all the the things that get posted on this forum, I would think the chief architect of the guts of the PS3 would probably be considered a knowledgeable source.  But that's just me.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Who's he to say, right?  He just designed the damn thing.

C.  No, this interview sort of disproves the "raw power" thing.  What it's really saying is that there is give and take on each system.  Pros and cons.  Hits and misses.  Certain software will take advantage of one better than the other, and vice versa.  Just because the PS3 can fold protein does not mean it is the ultimate gaming machine.  My calculator can do long division, but that doesn't mean I can play Tetris on it.

that doesn't make sense and here is why.

maths never lie if we look into floating point calculitons you only need 4 SPU to match xenon theorical maximum (that actually never reach either).

that left other 2 SPU and PPU.

at most cell it's 30-40% more powerful.

as for power ps3 it's the ultimate gaming machine in console market, anyone with brain and enough info on CPU will tell you that the thing is putting in sync 6 SPU and a PPE is not an easy task.

a calculator doesn't have the CPU power to play tetris (unless you are talking about a Texas Instrument calculator).

so that also depends on the calculator. >_>

i wanna see a 360 title doing the particles, animations, textures, effects etc, that killzone 2, uncharted 1-2, and gran turismo 5 are doing.

EDIT: in the article he even doens't state they are equal but rather , they have strenght 360 is easier to work with but you can get more things running in parallel on the ps3.

what he practically said is "here is a glass half full, and the other have a glass have empty."