Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Electro General said: MikeB said: EvilAvatar said: People dont like PS3 because it is very expansive, sony called X360 "Xbox 1,5" I agree, the PS3 is very expansive. Lots of cheap industry standard expansions like 320 GB harddrives for the same price you buy a 120 GB 360 harddrive, PlayTV, lots of firmware updates and new service being introduced. Not to mention the core hardware features are better, like my Nintendo DS has Wi-Fi, but on the 360 you pay something like 60 Euros for this and the console doesn't even come with online play out of the box... Do you have an exact quote with regard to your XBox 1.5 comment? Who said this? I can imagine Sony stating the PS3 is far more powerful than the 360, but that's something else.   Ken Kutaragi - "the Xbox 360 is more of an Xbox 1.5 than a next generation console." And look what happened to him. Good old Ken Kutaragi, First he was a thief in the early days of the first playstation during the Famicom-playstation project and then he became a liar when he said that the 360 was "xbox 1.5" .............no wonder i hate that rat.   It's funny how you guys hate him for things he "said". I don't think I've ever heard true PR in my life which is why I don't listen to PR period. If you put the PR aside, you'd realize that Ken is a man who had a vision, worked his way up to get that vision and ended up expanding the gaming industry beyond the "kiddie" stereotype to people who could spend their own money to play games. He made 2 hugely successful consoles, however, one failure regardless of past success gets you crucified. Such is the human way. This is why Ken was fired...he finally failed. He's won lifetime achievement awards for what he's done, there's a reason for that.      The most "unworthy" winner of a lifetime achievement award in the history of mankind, he's a thief. Bottom line______________________ He never stole anything. The story I'm familiar with is that Kutaragi (not sony) wanted to work with nintendo to introduce a disc system into the snes but got the shaft. Nintendo decided to go with phillips or something because they didn't want to introduce sony to the gaming industry. Sony finally got in the industry because Kutaragi was close to sony's CEO then and he convinced him to fund the PS project. Thus a system I finally thought worth buying was created. If you think he copied nintendo or someone else for the prototype or something, it wasn't beyond the legal realm. Many said M$ copied apple in designing vista but using existing tech to create a new one is never a crime. If it was copyright infringement (which is criminal), Kutaragi/sony would have been sued. He deserved the award for changing the face of the gaming industry period. You seem heavily entrenched in your beliefs anyway so I get the feeling I'm barking up a tree.     Ken was inspired to get in to gaming when he saw his daughter playing a mario game, he then works alongside nintendo to gain as much hardware and software knowledge as he possibly can and more than likely get inside info on other developers who worked for nintendo on a 3rd party basis, then the Famicom-playstation project is called off and Ken "thief" Kutagari goes running like a scalded dog to sony with all the development, hardware and software knowledge that he had stolen, thats how i see it and i'm not the only one.   Wow, so learning from others is now a crime lol. Note that nintendo was the one who called off the project. Sony wasn't interested in gaming, Ken was and he needed some backing that why he went to nintendo even behind his bosses backs. It was his closeness to the then sony CEO that spared him the axe and even got his "learned ideas" into motion. He was even the one who told his daughters story, thus, admitting that nintendo inspired him and thats now a bad thing. What has the world turned to?

 

The famicom-playstation project was cancelled due to naming rights, nintendo hired sony yet sony wanted the naming rights despite the FACT that they were the hired company, are you suprised that nintendo called the whole thing off? Again typical sony, wanting maximum profit for MINIMUM effort.

colonelstubbs said: If the ps3 was selling the same as it is now, but outselling the 360, these doom reports would not be happening. Thats the way i look at it

 

If the PS3 was selling at its current rate but outselling the 360. All of these doom reports would be happening. They would just say the PS3 and 360 are doomed since the Wii's marketshare would be well over 50% and rising.

MikeB said: rubido said: Fumanchu said: Trivialising Sony's real financial problems and pigeon-holing all the unfavourable media as 'jealousy' is a weak argument. The PS3 is grabbing headlines because of it's underperforming sales against expectations in lieu of previous successes and massive losses it has cost the company. I don't think the writers at CNN Money or TIME are jealous of the PS3.   Well said. I also disliked this article. Sqrl also said it well. PS3 is not dead. But the way this guy wrote the article makes it just another fanboy rant. In the end the bulk of criticism seem to revolve around entry pricing and sales. How dares Sony release a 600 dollar console? (While in fact entry pricing was 500 dollars) Entry pricing and sales are linked, so it's really just one combined issue. Nobody is holding a gun to your face to buy a PS3. The PS3 provides a good value for money ratio, in fact the device still costs more to make than for the price for which it sells. Sony could never have sold the PS3 like the Wii has sold (they couldn't afford to), this much was clear from the beginning. PS3 sales this year have been good from a worldwide perspective, like pointed out excellent games have been released in 2008 and there's every indication this trend is going to continue in 2009. That's what really matters for a game console. Would I want to trade my PS3 for a 360 or a Wii? No way and I am sure the bulk of PS3 owners feel the same.

I've noticed that you seem to change the subject when you respond to my posts. I know you're a guy that has very stong feelings for Sony and the PS3, but don't let that spill into other conversations when not apropriate. With posts like this, every thread will look the same after the fifth page of so (and this happens too much) because of so much derailing. The points you mentioned in this specific post have been discussed many times before and I don't want to get into that. This thread is about haters, jealousy and hostility, so let's keep it at that, OK? ;)

I said I agreed with Sqrl and Fumanchu because:

1) Are there haters? Yes.

2) Is there jealousy? Yes.

3) Is there hostility? Yes.

4) So all you read about the PS3 falls into one of these categories? Hell no!!!

The article you linked to seems to imply that. Like things are all roses in Sony's camp when it's clearly not so. There is a lot of truth in the articles that come around about the PS3 and specially about Sony's current financial situation, but there are also some exagerations. A good critical view of this could have taken some example articles and pinpointed how some claims are false or how they are used incorrectly when fanboys get a hold of them. But this is not what this specific article does. It carries the message "it's all jealousy". Do you actually agree with this view?

Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Electro General said: MikeB said: EvilAvatar said: People dont like PS3 because it is very expansive, sony called X360 "Xbox 1,5" I agree, the PS3 is very expansive. Lots of cheap industry standard expansions like 320 GB harddrives for the same price you buy a 120 GB 360 harddrive, PlayTV, lots of firmware updates and new service being introduced. Not to mention the core hardware features are better, like my Nintendo DS has Wi-Fi, but on the 360 you pay something like 60 Euros for this and the console doesn't even come with online play out of the box... Do you have an exact quote with regard to your XBox 1.5 comment? Who said this? I can imagine Sony stating the PS3 is far more powerful than the 360, but that's something else.   Ken Kutaragi - "the Xbox 360 is more of an Xbox 1.5 than a next generation console." And look what happened to him. Good old Ken Kutaragi, First he was a thief in the early days of the first playstation during the Famicom-playstation project and then he became a liar when he said that the 360 was "xbox 1.5" .............no wonder i hate that rat.   It's funny how you guys hate him for things he "said". I don't think I've ever heard true PR in my life which is why I don't listen to PR period. If you put the PR aside, you'd realize that Ken is a man who had a vision, worked his way up to get that vision and ended up expanding the gaming industry beyond the "kiddie" stereotype to people who could spend their own money to play games. He made 2 hugely successful consoles, however, one failure regardless of past success gets you crucified. Such is the human way. This is why Ken was fired...he finally failed. He's won lifetime achievement awards for what he's done, there's a reason for that.      The most "unworthy" winner of a lifetime achievement award in the history of mankind, he's a thief. Bottom line______________________ He never stole anything. The story I'm familiar with is that Kutaragi (not sony) wanted to work with nintendo to introduce a disc system into the snes but got the shaft. Nintendo decided to go with phillips or something because they didn't want to introduce sony to the gaming industry. Sony finally got in the industry because Kutaragi was close to sony's CEO then and he convinced him to fund the PS project. Thus a system I finally thought worth buying was created. If you think he copied nintendo or someone else for the prototype or something, it wasn't beyond the legal realm. Many said M$ copied apple in designing vista but using existing tech to create a new one is never a crime. If it was copyright infringement (which is criminal), Kutaragi/sony would have been sued. He deserved the award for changing the face of the gaming industry period. You seem heavily entrenched in your beliefs anyway so I get the feeling I'm barking up a tree.     Ken was inspired to get in to gaming when he saw his daughter playing a mario game, he then works alongside nintendo to gain as much hardware and software knowledge as he possibly can and more than likely get inside info on other developers who worked for nintendo on a 3rd party basis, then the Famicom-playstation project is called off and Ken "thief" Kutagari goes running like a scalded dog to sony with all the development, hardware and software knowledge that he had stolen, thats how i see it and i'm not the only one.   Wow, so learning from others is now a crime lol. Note that nintendo was the one who called off the project. Sony wasn't interested in gaming, Ken was and he needed some backing that why he went to nintendo even behind his bosses backs. It was his closeness to the then sony CEO that spared him the axe and even got his "learned ideas" into motion. He was even the one who told his daughters story, thus, admitting that nintendo inspired him and thats now a bad thing. What has the world turned to?     The famicom-playstation project was cancelled due to naming rights, nintendo hired sony yet sony wanted the naming rights despite the FACT that they were the hired company, are you suprised that nintendo called the whole thing off? Again typical sony, wanting maximum profit for MINIMUM effort.

Yet you fail to get the point that sony as a whole never signed this deal. Kutaragi acted by himself but his ties to sony as an engineer pulled the whole company into the deal. When the company got pulled in surprisingly, it's hard to know if they even realized exactly what effort Ken put into the process. This knowledge is not available for public viewing so I don't know where you're getting all these ideas from. What I do know is that Nintendo (not sony) cancelled the deal for whatever reason, thus, Ken built the ps1 for sony. Thus the idea of him going to nintendo just to steal ideas is just ludricious. Believe whatever you want.

At this point, it really feels like you're looking for any reason to hate Ken as a person or sony as a whole. After all your previous reasons for hating Ken were refuted you've come up with this. Good luck hating sony. I said from the beginning that I knew you were entrenched in your beliefs and won't look consider anything beyond them. Looks like I was right.

Wow, some people just love to hate lol.

 

MikeB said: @ Pristine20 He was even the one who told his daughters story, thus, admitting that nintendo inspired him and thats now a bad thing. What has the world turned to? There's nothing wrong with gaining inspiration. For example Gears of War's hailed cover system was inspired by other games: "Bleszinski said the seeds of Gears of War were sown by three titles. The first was Capcom's Resident Evil 4, which made an indelible impression on Bleszinski even before its January 2005 release. "I really liked the pacing and the over-the-shoulder view," said the designer. The second game was Namco's 2004 shooter kill.switch. Though it had much less success critically or financially than Resident Evil 4, Bleszinski felt "it had the best cover system at that time." He felt that incorporating a similar cover system would really change the pace of Gears and set it apart from other shooters. Another inspiration was the classic arcade game Bionic Commando. In it, players must shoot a grappling hook to ascend from platform to platform vertically. Bleszinski thinks Gears has the same mechanic--jumping from cover point to cover point to advance--on a horizontal axis." Inspiration from Lord of the Rings: "We wanted the Locust to be intelligent savages; they're like the Uruk-hai in LOTR, only with guns. The Uruk-hai would organise themselves, line up and then storm in - even though they look like horrible monsters. That's what the Locust essentially are"

I agree. He just seems to inherently hate sony and want a reason for it. I thought the reason came before the hate but this seems like the opposite especially considering the fact that he obviously supports a company (M$) which has had it's own share of controversy as well lol. What a joke.

 

Ronster316 said: Ken was inspired to get in to gaming when he saw his daughter playing a mario game, he then works alongside nintendo to gain as much hardware and software knowledge as he possibly can and more than likely get inside info on other developers who worked for nintendo on a 3rd party basis, then the Famicom-playstation project is called off and Ken "thief" Kutagari goes running like a scalded dog to sony with all the development, hardware and software knowledge that he had stolen, thats how i see it and i'm not the only one.

 

Wow!! Just wow!! I dislike Kuratagi because I think he gets a lot of credit for playstation's success when I think it should go to other people inside Sony. I think Kuratagi is responsible for designing the playstation machines. The success of the playstation brand is their relationship with third-party developers.

But what you said is too much. I'm almost speechless. I think nintendo was the one who lost interest in working with sony, wasn't it?

It is a PS fans magazine im not suprised they do like PS3 line up most since they wouldnt get that console if they did not like it in a first place.

magazines like OXM, Official nintendo Magazine or PS extreme will always hail their consoles lineup the best, or the most promising one.

@ rubido

No and IMO the original article didn't claim this neither, but I think it adds fuel to the situation like the original article states.

Bottom-line, the PS3 is not Doomed and has a most excellent gaming line-up. This is what matters the most.

Important fuel is of course also that Microsoft email which included over 90% misinformation regarding a PS3 and 360 comparison. Also some vivid VGChartz posters clam a lot onto what was stated in this laughable posting.

The PS3 must be inferior or else... If the PS3 is really much more powerful in the end some probably will feel too ashamed of their past comments. So I think from some people's view, it must not and cannot be correct (hence the mass hyping of minor porting issues).

The same happened with regard to the RRoD issues, fanboys even went as far as to attack fellow console fans for having had to go through so many console failures. After all Microsoft in public claimed the problems were within industry standards, so people must be lying. It was a shock to many when Microsoft announced to their shareholders the real extend of the problems (costing over 1.15 Billion dollars at the time) to defend themselves from costly and potentially destructive lawsuits. The loss of HD DVD was another such shock event, likewise were top notch PS3 exclusives, Halo 3 technical sacrifices, etc.

rubido said: Ronster316 said: Ken was inspired to get in to gaming when he saw his daughter playing a mario game, he then works alongside nintendo to gain as much hardware and software knowledge as he possibly can and more than likely get inside info on other developers who worked for nintendo on a 3rd party basis, then the Famicom-playstation project is called off and Ken "thief" Kutagari goes running like a scalded dog to sony with all the development, hardware and software knowledge that he had stolen, thats how i see it and i'm not the only one.     Wow!! Just wow!! I dislike Kuratagi because I think he gets a lot of credit for playstation's success when I think it should go to other people inside Sony. I think Kuratagi is responsible for designing the playstation machines. The success of the playstation brand is their relationship with third-party developers. But what you said is too much. I'm almost speechless. I think nintendo was the one who lost interest in working with sony, wasn't it?

He deserves the credit because sony itself was never interested in gaming in the first place. Kutaragi was, thats why he went behind their backs to nintendo which was obviously a company he admired. This is apparent because he was the one who told the story of his daughter playing mario. However, nintendo turned down the deal to work with sony and chose phillips instead for reasons that were never made public. I hear this was also one reason why Japanese corporate was mad at nintendo in general for choosing a european company over a traditional Japanese one.

Thus, perhaps out of pity or rebellion, many JP devs also chose to support the ps1 over n64 for these reasons. Add the fact that the ps1 was cheaper to develop for, a few moneyhats and CDs were easier to work with and you get the full picture.

The  concept of hating sony for arrogance is also ludricious as those that have been reading the gaming industry press for a long time know that nintendo was the one who invented arrogance as well as the other positives they've introduced to the industry. I personally don't care about this stuff because I don't listen to PR but supporting one company while condemning another for things the one you support have done as well is pure hypocrisy.

 

 

Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Pristine20 said: Ronster316 said: Electro General said: MikeB said: EvilAvatar said: People dont like PS3 because it is very expansive, sony called X360 "Xbox 1,5" I agree, the PS3 is very expansive. Lots of cheap industry standard expansions like 320 GB harddrives for the same price you buy a 120 GB 360 harddrive, PlayTV, lots of firmware updates and new service being introduced. Not to mention the core hardware features are better, like my Nintendo DS has Wi-Fi, but on the 360 you pay something like 60 Euros for this and the console doesn't even come with online play out of the box... Do you have an exact quote with regard to your XBox 1.5 comment? Who said this? I can imagine Sony stating the PS3 is far more powerful than the 360, but that's something else.   Ken Kutaragi - "the Xbox 360 is more of an Xbox 1.5 than a next generation console." And look what happened to him. Good old Ken Kutaragi, First he was a thief in the early days of the first playstation during the Famicom-playstation project and then he became a liar when he said that the 360 was "xbox 1.5" .............no wonder i hate that rat.   It's funny how you guys hate him for things he "said". I don't think I've ever heard true PR in my life which is why I don't listen to PR period. If you put the PR aside, you'd realize that Ken is a man who had a vision, worked his way up to get that vision and ended up expanding the gaming industry beyond the "kiddie" stereotype to people who could spend their own money to play games. He made 2 hugely successful consoles, however, one failure regardless of past success gets you crucified. Such is the human way. This is why Ken was fired...he finally failed. He's won lifetime achievement awards for what he's done, there's a reason for that.      The most "unworthy" winner of a lifetime achievement award in the history of mankind, he's a thief. Bottom line______________________ He never stole anything. The story I'm familiar with is that Kutaragi (not sony) wanted to work with nintendo to introduce a disc system into the snes but got the shaft. Nintendo decided to go with phillips or something because they didn't want to introduce sony to the gaming industry. Sony finally got in the industry because Kutaragi was close to sony's CEO then and he convinced him to fund the PS project. Thus a system I finally thought worth buying was created. If you think he copied nintendo or someone else for the prototype or something, it wasn't beyond the legal realm. Many said M$ copied apple in designing vista but using existing tech to create a new one is never a crime. If it was copyright infringement (which is criminal), Kutaragi/sony would have been sued. He deserved the award for changing the face of the gaming industry period. You seem heavily entrenched in your beliefs anyway so I get the feeling I'm barking up a tree.     Ken was inspired to get in to gaming when he saw his daughter playing a mario game, he then works alongside nintendo to gain as much hardware and software knowledge as he possibly can and more than likely get inside info on other developers who worked for nintendo on a 3rd party basis, then the Famicom-playstation project is called off and Ken "thief" Kutagari goes running like a scalded dog to sony with all the development, hardware and software knowledge that he had stolen, thats how i see it and i'm not the only one.   Wow, so learning from others is now a crime lol. Note that nintendo was the one who called off the project. Sony wasn't interested in gaming, Ken was and he needed some backing that why he went to nintendo even behind his bosses backs. It was his closeness to the then sony CEO that spared him the axe and even got his "learned ideas" into motion. He was even the one who told his daughters story, thus, admitting that nintendo inspired him and thats now a bad thing. What has the world turned to?     The famicom-playstation project was cancelled due to naming rights, nintendo hired sony yet sony wanted the naming rights despite the FACT that they were the hired company, are you suprised that nintendo called the whole thing off? Again typical sony, wanting maximum profit for MINIMUM effort. Yet you fail to get the point that sony as a whole never signed this deal. Kutaragi acted by himself but his ties to sony as an engineer pulled the whole company into the deal. When the company got pulled in surprisingly, it's hard to know if they even realized exactly what effort Ken put into the process. This knowledge is not available for public viewing so I don't know where you're getting all these ideas from. What I do know is that Nintendo (not sony) cancelled the deal for whatever reason, thus, Ken built the ps1 for sony. Thus the idea of him going to nintendo just to steal ideas is just ludricious. Believe whatever you want. At this point, it really feels like you're looking for any reason to hate Ken as a person or sony as a whole. After all your previous reasons for hating Ken were refuted you've come up with this. Good luck hating sony. I said from the beginning that I knew you were entrenched in your beliefs and won't look consider anything beyond them. Looks like I was right. Wow, some people just love to hate lol.

 

In sonys contract in the "small print" area it mentioned that sony were to obtain all naming rights but as i have said it was nintendo who hired sony, a nintendo representitive reviewed the contract and saw that sony were trying to screw nintendo over hence the day that nintendo were supposed to officially name sony as their partners they named philips as their partners instead, as i have said many times, sony always want maximim praise for minimum effort.

And my beleifs do not come in to this, i'm not the only person who thinks that sony were trying to screw nintendo over.

Maybe you should reflect on that and look at your own beliefs before cursing mine.