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Forums - Sony - "PS3 Haters Lose Advantage, Jealousy Fuels Hostility"

Ronster316 said:

So silent in fact that i think i'll paste it again, oh, and thanx to wikipedia for the following information below..........................

Here's what really happened between Sony and Nintendo.

The first conceptions of the PlayStation date back to 1986. Nintendo had been attempting to work with disc technology since the Famicom, but the medium had problems. Its rewritable magnetic nature could be easily erased (thus leading to a lack of durability), and the discs were a copyright infringement danger. Consequently, when details of CDROM/XA (an extension of the CD-ROM format that combines compressed audio, visual and computer data, allowing all to be accessed simultaneously) came out, Nintendo was interested. CD-ROM/XA was being simultaneously developed by Sony and Philips. Nintendo approached Sony to develop a CD-ROM add-on, tentatively titled the "SNES-CD". A contract was signed, and work began. Nintendo's choice of Sony was due to a prior dealing: Ken Kutaragi, the person who would later be dubbed "The Father of PlayStation", was the individual who had sold Nintendo on using the Sony SPC-700 processor for use as the eight-channel ADPCM sound synthesis set in the Super Famicom/SNES console through an impressive demonstration of the processor's capabilities.

Sony also planned to develop another, Nintendo compatible, Sony-branded console, but one which would be more of a home entertainment system playing both Super Nintendo cartridges and a new CD format which Sony would design. This was also to be the format used in SNES-CD discs, giving a large degree of control to Sony despite Nintendo's leading position in the video gaming market.

The SNES-CD was to be announced at the June 1991 Consumer Electronics Show (CES). However, when Hiroshi Yamauchi read the original 1988 contract between Sony and Nintendo, he realized that the earlier agreement essentially handed Sony complete control over any and all titles written on the SNES CD-ROM format. Yamauchi decided that the contract was totally unacceptable and he secretly canceled all plans for the joint Nintendo-Sony SNES CD attachment. Instead of announcing a partnership between Sony and Nintendo, at 9 a.m. the day of the CES, Nintendo chairman Howard Lincoln stepped onto the stage and revealed that Nintendo was now allied with Philips, and Nintendo was planning on abandoning all the previous work Nintendo and Sony had accomplished. Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa had, unbeknown to Sony, flown to Philips headquarters in Europe and formed an alliance of a decidedly different nature—one that would give Nintendo total control over its licenses on Philips machines.

After the collapse of the joint project, Sony considered halting their research, but ultimately the company decided to use what they had developed so far and make it into a complete, stand alone console. As a result, Nintendo filed a lawsuit claiming breach of contract and attempted, in U.S. federal court, to obtain an injunction against the release of the PlayStation, on the grounds that Nintendo owned the name. The federal judge presiding over the case denied the injunction and, in October 1991, the first incarnation of the new Sony PlayStation was revealed. However, it is theorized that only 200 or so of these machines were ever produced.

By the end of 1992, Sony and Nintendo reached a deal whereby the "Sony Play Station" would still have a port for SNES games, but Nintendo would own the rights and receive the bulk of the profits from the games, and the SNES would continue to use the Sony-designed audio chip. However, Sony decided in early 1993 to begin reworking the "Play Station" concept to target a new generation of hardware and software. As part of this process the SNES cartridge port was dropped and the space between the names was removed.

 

See...  Even as a Nintendo fanboy, I see that SONY was stabbed in the back.  There was nothing wrong with reworking a contract if something was disagreeable.  At the very least, let your partner know the deal is off before letting the whole world know out of respect and honor.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

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Jordahn said:

  At the very least, let your partner know the deal is off before letting the whole world know out of respect and honor.

When your partner is trying to stab you in the back? hummmmm... great respect your partner has buddy.

 



rubido said:
Jordahn said:

  At the very least, let your partner know the deal is off before letting the whole world know out of respect and honor.

When your partner is trying to stab you in the back? hummmmm... great respect your partner has buddy.

 

 

How so?  A contract was signed, and if someone falied to read its terms that's his fault.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

MikeB said:



In general developers know what needs to be done, it's just a lot of work to do. Legacy game engines are advancing step by step, moving systems over from the PPE to the SPEs. In the end nearly everything should run on the Cell's SPEs, the PPE should be mainly used for what it is designed for in the PS3 (managing the SPEs) and likewise with regard to the RSX (as the SPEs are far more powerful and flexible than the RSX with certain tasks). Other important considerations relate for instance to optimising game engines to take advantage of Blu-Ray/harddrive streaming.

If you have seen engine code, you will understand it's like bookworks of complex programming. Understanding the differences between the PPE and SPEs, you will understand there's a lot of legacy code to be adapted (but when adapted this code could run more efficiently on the PPE and other processors as well, but if not adapted it will not run on the SPEs at all).

 

Hin Hiiin ?

Jealousy, 10 years plan, Cell difficult to master, more quality justify the scandalous price ... I'm confused now...

I'm a 30 years old videogames enthousisast who started with the Atari 2600, went via the PS2. I can buy 6 X PS3 a month... and yet... I won't... weird...



 

Evan Wells (Uncharted 2): I think the differences that you see between any two games has much more to do with the developer than whether it’s on the Xbox or PS3.

The PS3 haters are definately filled with jealousy and hostility. Some are certainly mentally imbalanced as well.

The PS3 is a sleeping giant that will break out at some price point, though what point is hard to say. Significantly we are only scratching the surface of what the system can do, while we basically are seeing the peak potential of the 360. It was always a long term strategy for Sony. When the haters see the PS3 thriving longer than any system before it the haters will eat their words. While I doubt Sony goes 10 years without a new system I think the PS3 will still have some solid presence in the market in 2016.



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@ celticlonewolf

Mike B I have to say I really think that in your eyes sony can do no wrong and MS can do no right lol looking back at all your posts that is way clear lol It wouldnt be supprised if MS was to announce that the 360 was to get a 100 dollar price cut with all sales money going to the homles you would still find something to bash the 360 for(ofcourse this isnt going to happen Im just making a point on how you love to put the 360 down)


You're spouting nonsense, for instance before I really knew about the hardware issues I stated in public the 360 was a good and powerful console. Of course I had to revise my opinion with regard to being a "good console" when I much later knew about the true extend of issues. Also the power supply was also bigger than I liked and the device made too much noise when I owned my ex-XBox premium.

However some MikeB quotes from 2006:

"I believe it will take at least a few years until we see some games starting to push the PS3's capabilities. I believe conversions will initially look quite similar across different platforms, as for the games houses it's all about creating revenue. Development costs vs additional sales revenue, time is money to them. A bit like early Atari ST => Amiga conversions."

For Nintendo fans some MikeB quotes from before release in response to rumours Nintendo would fail:

"I don't think the Wii will fail, I think it will do better than the Nintendo GameCube did."

"I feel confident the Nintendo Wii will do well though due to its innovative gameplay"

Similarly in reply to Sony's alledged downfall due to PS3 investments:

"In a worst case scenario only, I would imagine Sony to sell off one of their valuable subsidiaries, selling product IP and/or reducing their massive 158,500 employees (more than twice the amount of M$). IMO there will be no downfall of Sony anywhere in the near future."

360 fans were doing overtime generating FUD and misinformation, I countered them a lot with IMO far more balanced perspectives. I understand some may actually think as narrow mindedly as celticlonewolf about me, but I am mostly just a tech as well as games enthusiast, although I prefer Sony, Philips, Panasonic, whatever above Microsoft for obvious reasons, I still have a Microsoft Sidewider gamepad, had a Microsoft Natural Keyboard and 360 in the past and of course my PC is still running WindowsXP....



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

@ bdbdbd

Well, even if PS3 comes down in price, it needs to compete 360, which will allways be cheaper and offers the same as PS3.


That's of course not true, not in terms of specifications nor exclusives.

And as long as the hardware sales don't go up, it's unlikely that developers keep intrest in that platform. 3rd party exclusives are unlikely to happen due to low installbase and high costs.


I think that's a very narrow minded view, all top sold 360 games not published by Microsoft ended up on the PS3. The install base has increased and costs have come down.

Multi-platform games are now about on par, so for an on par future PS3 version the game engine is already done and does not require much additional R&D, only if the devs want to get the most out of the PS3 significantly more R&D would be required. Assets cost the bulk of development costs and they can be re-used for both platforms, only if you decide to create better assets like high quality textures and 7.1 audio (taking advantage of a default harddrive and Blu-Ray) more investments are required.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Sardauk said:
MikeB said:



In general developers know what needs to be done, it's just a lot of work to do. Legacy game engines are advancing step by step, moving systems over from the PPE to the SPEs. In the end nearly everything should run on the Cell's SPEs, the PPE should be mainly used for what it is designed for in the PS3 (managing the SPEs) and likewise with regard to the RSX (as the SPEs are far more powerful and flexible than the RSX with certain tasks). Other important considerations relate for instance to optimising game engines to take advantage of Blu-Ray/harddrive streaming.

If you have seen engine code, you will understand it's like bookworks of complex programming. Understanding the differences between the PPE and SPEs, you will understand there's a lot of legacy code to be adapted (but when adapted this code could run more efficiently on the PPE and other processors as well, but if not adapted it will not run on the SPEs at all).

 

Hin Hiiin ?

Jealousy, 10 years plan, Cell difficult to master, more quality justify the scandalous price ... I'm confused now...

I'm a 30 years old videogames enthousisast who started with the Atari 2600, went via the PS2. I can buy 6 X PS3 a month... and yet... I won't... weird...

 

How much money have you spend so far on your XBox 360? (I mean games + upgrades + XBox Live, etc)

Seriously answer this.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Ok...

 

390 Euros for the GRAW2 bundle

45 for an second controller with a battery

30 for a chatpad and mic

For games, I bought:

- Halo 3 (Ebay 30 euros)

- Gears of War (Ebay 25 Euros)

- Gears of War 2 (New, 56 Euros)

- Starwars Force Unleached (Ebay 35 Euros)

- Halo Combat evolved (XBL- 8 Euros)

- The orange Box (New 55 Euros)

- Bioshock (New 55 Euros)

- Castle Crashers (XBL- can't remember the exact price, but lets say 20 Euros)

- Portal Still Alive (same thing so 10 Euros)

- Left 4 Dead (New 58 Euros)

- Mirror's edge (New 65 Euros)

- Burnout Paradise (New 58 Euros)

- GTA4 (New 62 Euros)

- Prince of Persia (Ebay - 42 Euros)

- ... beuh.. plus subscription and DLC .. etc

 

Lets say 1.200 € in 2 years.

 

 



 

Evan Wells (Uncharted 2): I think the differences that you see between any two games has much more to do with the developer than whether it’s on the Xbox or PS3.

@ Sardauk

Lets say 1.200 €


And why do you think the PS3 pricing is so scandalous then?

For 1200 Euro, you can also have a PS3 with:
- A large harddrive
- Free online gameplay (+Playstation Home)
- Blu-Ray movie playback (taking full advantage of your HDTV)
- Keyboard, mouse and wireless headset
- and extras like Wi-Fi, less noise generation, internal power supply, etc.

as well as 15 full price PS3 games (with DLC) instead.

Is that scandalous?



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales