RE: Settler violence - Yeah that is what I was thinking. Your google search is just wrong, you will get alot more hits with better searches. The latest flare up in Hebron is not new or unique. Hebron in particular always has massive issues with human rights organizations, especially Jewish-Israeli ones, about their treatment of Palestinians.

RE: Electricity issue - The one point you both are missing is that Israeli is the occupying power. They are required by international laws to provide Palestinians with these life necesities. If they left back to their own homes and let Palestinians control/create their own electricity it wouldn't be an issue.

Also, in 2000 ALL Arab leaders, except I think Lybia and other harline groups like Hamas, signed an agreement that followed international laws exactly. If Israel backed up the the Green Line (border before 1967 war) and allowed refugees to return home then they would all have full normalized relations with Israel. Israel didn't even discuss it. They should have jumped on the best chance in over 50yrs to have real peace, yet they ignored it.

You're right though, Israel could wipe them out easily. However, that is something even US wouldn't stand behind. Instead they use their settlers, expansions, checkpoints, occasional air attacks on apartments/cars etc to kill 10-50 people here and there and general aparthied actions to hopefully cause arabs to leave.

In reality they are just stalling until they finish their wall, then they will forcefully evacuate most settlements in WB, leaving Palestinians with another massive loss in land. Then they will probably cut support for electricity etc since they can declare that they are no longer an occupying power and have no legal recourse to thus putting millions of people in even worse conditions. Then of couse sense it isn't a real agreement with anyone, Arabs will still keep attacking and Israel will *have* to defend itself by blowing up airports, bridges, apartments, mosques, etc.

Just to clarify, in the recent war only around 60-80 civilians have been killed as collateral in Israeli airstrikes according to the UN.  The 400 number includes the over 300 terrorists and other various Hamas members the airstrikes have killed.

To follow on from that note, I wonder how often Hamas achieves (or even tries to achieve) a 4:1 militarized personnel:civilian ration.

1. Wouldn't you? If someone forced themselves into your house and told you that you can only live in the bedrooms, wouldn't you want them gone? Wouldn't you continue to call the entire house exclusively yours? Again, lack of true historical knowledge is why people think there is something inherently wrong with Arabs refusing to put Israel on a map before a final agreement has been made.

2. lol. They just relocate them. They removed Gaza, which had no historical basis for Israel in the first place, and expanded the largest settlements around Jerusalem and other cities like Hebron. Same thing in WB. They have taken down small outposts that many times had one or two family of radical Jews and relocated by force to other settlements. They are still expanding illegally.

3. I didn't say it was genocide, just 'genocidal idea'. I couldn't think of a better word for the idea that its ok to murder numerous bystanders to get one person. Maybe it was too harsh of a word choice, what would you call it? But, that is how Israel, and Arabs, have always responded. That is why above I called them both pushed on by their own terrorists.

link? All I have heard on numerous sites is over 400 civilians.

I thought this thread was about the political positioning of Israel and Hamas-Palestine's governments and the useless killing of civilians by both sides through all manner of violent methods.

What does conflict in Israel/Palestine (and the unyielding US Evangelical support of the Jews) have to do with religion?

Oh. Nevermind.

The stuff I've seen on tv seem to fall inline with what starcraft is saying. I hope what he's saying is right as the fewer civilian casualties the better.

@superchunk.
do you honestly think that the Palestinians and their leaders want to coexist with Israel? do they really want peace?
do you think Israel want peace and coexist with the Palestinians?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5428844.ece

You heard wrong.  Thats the kind of misunderstanding that paints Israel as some kind of inhuman bastard child.

As someone mentioned earlier, nations like the USA and Israel will spend billions on smarter weapons to try and minimise civilian casualities when killing terrorists through airstrikes becomes a necessity, whereas Hamas is simply pointing rockets at towns and cities and pushing the button.

Edit:  This article is just 9 hours old btw.