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superchunk on 02 January 2009
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Comrade Tovya said:
Final-Fan said:

Well, let's be realistic -- if it's a Voice of America news story on the Prime Minister of Israel denouncing violence by settlers against Palestinians, then there's probably some goddamn violence going on against some Palestinians.

On the other hand, I seriously doubt that the "pogrom" comparisons are not exaggerated.  The fact is that even though terrorism gets more attention than oppression, the settlers are not equally violent.  Google search gave 59,300 results for "palestinian sucide bomber".  "jewish suicide bomber"?  637.  And the fourth one was a hypothetical scenario that implied a comparison between Jews and Nazis -- classy. 

(Having said that, the article in question is clearly referring to a large outburst of violence by the settlers, as a result of the Israeli gov't cracking down and removing some settlements.  So I would guess this is a wave of new and unusual violence that will recede.)

As for people's power getting shut off, how sure are you that they weren't simply staggering the schedule for who got electricity?  Or perhaps the settlers paid extra money for the privilege?  I am not impressed and anyway it's massively off topic. 

 

What's you point?  Why would "Jewish suicide bomber" pull up a significant amount of hits in Google?  That is a Muslim thing to do, not a Jewish one.  I'm pretty sure you'll find more "Jewish Synagogues" in Google than you will "Muslim Synagogues".  Why?  Because synagogues are a Jewish thing... not a Muslim one.

As for the electricity subject, the Jewish nation PAYS FOR and PROVIDES the electricity to the Palestinians as a service.  If those same people want to kill Jews, they have the right not to provide that service.  If I wanted to kill you, would you bring a loaded gun over to my house?  I'd think not. 

The right to survival is a basic human need.  If the Palestinians want to live in peace, they could choose to do so.  They, unfortunately, want to "drive the Jews into the sea" (well, at least the leadership does).

And more importantly, Israel could wipe out the Palestinians by barely lifting a finger, and they have never done so... because the importance of human life means something to the Israelis.  If the Palestinians wore the same shoe, they would have destroyed the Jews long ago.  Pan-Arabia has been attempting to do so for over 60 years, and they have opening admitted that this is their goal.  So there is no arguement here.

RE: Settler violence - Yeah that is what I was thinking. Your google search is just wrong, you will get alot more hits with better searches. The latest flare up in Hebron is not new or unique. Hebron in particular always has massive issues with human rights organizations, especially Jewish-Israeli ones, about their treatment of Palestinians.

RE: Electricity issue - The one point you both are missing is that Israeli is the occupying power. They are required by international laws to provide Palestinians with these life necesities. If they left back to their own homes and let Palestinians control/create their own electricity it wouldn't be an issue.

Also, in 2000 ALL Arab leaders, except I think Lybia and other harline groups like Hamas, signed an agreement that followed international laws exactly. If Israel backed up the the Green Line (border before 1967 war) and allowed refugees to return home then they would all have full normalized relations with Israel. Israel didn't even discuss it. They should have jumped on the best chance in over 50yrs to have real peace, yet they ignored it.

You're right though, Israel could wipe them out easily. However, that is something even US wouldn't stand behind. Instead they use their settlers, expansions, checkpoints, occasional air attacks on apartments/cars etc to kill 10-50 people here and there and general aparthied actions to hopefully cause arabs to leave.

In reality they are just stalling until they finish their wall, then they will forcefully evacuate most settlements in WB, leaving Palestinians with another massive loss in land. Then they will probably cut support for electricity etc since they can declare that they are no longer an occupying power and have no legal recourse to thus putting millions of people in even worse conditions. Then of couse sense it isn't a real agreement with anyone, Arabs will still keep attacking and Israel will *have* to defend itself by blowing up airports, bridges, apartments, mosques, etc.