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Forums - Sony - Do you think Sony will shut down some first party studios?

NJ5 on 29 December 2008

@RPG: As I said, it's a hunch. I did not pretend I have any special insight into this, in fact I made it clear that only Sony knows whether studios will have to get affected. Studios are a big part of SCE though, so it would be surprising to me if all of them were untouchable.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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RPG on 29 December 2008

Yes we shall see, which studios do you think will get the boot from Sony then?

For me Evolution and Team ICO



 

Squilliam on 29 December 2008

With 200 employees, a game released every year they would need to sell a Million copies per year to break even pretty much if you included advertising expenses etc. *At full price*

200*100k = $20,000,000 per year for Insomniac.

Epic for example, comparing 2nd party developers is worth far more than Insomniac and they have fewer staff IIRC. Sony at present have too many mediocre developers. Its better to have a few good developers constantly churning out multi-million sellers than a bunch of middling 0.5-1.2 million sales developers.



Tease.

Phrancheyez on 29 December 2008
damndl0ser said:
Kantor said:
damndl0ser said:
I would doubt they get rid of any of their first party studios. I think that a lot of them are under performing and will have to come up with more than 1 game every 4 years. Most studios can do a game in 2 fairly easy. Just look at Gears 1/2.

MOST. The majority of studios do come out with a game every two years, or less (as in Insomniac's case)

However, Polyphony Digital and Team ICO both take their own sweet time, but nobody cares, because their games are incredible.

Guerilla probably wanted to spend time on Killzone 2 so it wouldn't end up as bugged as the original.

So, Sony isn't going to rush PD or Team ICO, but Guerilla should speed themselves up.

Besides, Gears of War 2 wasn't exactly changed massively from the original, was it? Not that that's a bad thing.

I can tell you without any doubts, people care, esp... the ones who have invested in those studios.  Every company has its own internal deadlines and goals.  And when you get companies that are continually blowing those they will eventually have huge problems.   If some of these games had come out a year or 2 ago do you thing Sony would be in as big of a mess as they are now?  I would tend to think that it wouldn't be as bad and Sony would probably have a few more sales under its belt.

As for my example with Gears, which company would you rather invest in  1 who has a release every 2 years and doubles the sales of the other.  Or one that continually delays, and sells half as much?  It doesn't matter if the game is similar or whatever, it matters that it has a successful game period.

No really, no they don't.  I want Polyphony Digital and Team ICO to take as long as they think they need.  And I'm pretty sure, I can almost garuntee, neither of these studios are being given deadlines.  You don't push a deadline onto a studio who sells over 2 million demo's @ $40 a piece, or sells 10 million copies every time it releases a retail game.  And while Team ICO games are somewhat niche, they're amazing.  They always have been..and Sony knows this.  There are very VERY few games out there that can compare to the creativity and fun behind Shadow of the Colossus.  Very few..like maybe 1 or 2...all time.

@half as much
I guess it'd be a problem if Gran Turismo didn't have the potential to sell twice as much as Gears.



Million on 29 December 2008

cut wastage off for efficiency ? yes.
close em down ? unlikely.

Because we know that is the trend, we, as a company, can invest in our first-party studios," says Yoshida, who is relocating to Japan as his division is set to play an ever more integral role in PlayStation's future success. Collaborating more closely with SCEI prez Kaz Hirai, Yoshida says he'll be working "not only to create games, but to participate in the overall direction-setting of our company and our future platforms." Future platforms? Let's just focus on exclusive, first-party titles for those present platforms of yours for now, 'kay?

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/07/sony-first-party-games-more-important-this-generation/





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RPG on 29 December 2008
Squilliam said:
With 200 employees, a game released every year they would need to sell a Million copies per year to break even pretty much if you included advertising expenses etc. *At full price*

200*100k = $20,000,000 per year for Insomniac.

Epic for example, comparing 2nd party developers is worth far more than Insomniac and they have fewer staff IIRC. Sony at present have too many mediocre developers. Its better to have a few good developers constantly churning out multi-million sellers than a bunch of middling 0.5-1.2 million sales developers.

 

Now where did you get that 100k from? I think I know a place but a link would be much appreciated. ;)



 

Squilliam on 29 December 2008
RPG said:
Squilliam said:
With 200 employees, a game released every year they would need to sell a Million copies per year to break even pretty much if you included advertising expenses etc. *At full price*

200*100k = $20,000,000 per year for Insomniac.

Epic for example, comparing 2nd party developers is worth far more than Insomniac and they have fewer staff IIRC. Sony at present have too many mediocre developers. Its better to have a few good developers constantly churning out multi-million sellers than a bunch of middling 0.5-1.2 million sales developers.

 

Now where did you get that 100k from? I think I know a place but a link would be much appreciated. ;)

www.beyond3d.com

www.google.com search = EA layoffs.

Its wages + overhead per developer, a pretty good estimate.

 



Tease.

damndl0ser on 29 December 2008
Phrancheyez said:
damndl0ser said:
Kantor said:
damndl0ser said:
I would doubt they get rid of any of their first party studios. I think that a lot of them are under performing and will have to come up with more than 1 game every 4 years. Most studios can do a game in 2 fairly easy. Just look at Gears 1/2.

MOST. The majority of studios do come out with a game every two years, or less (as in Insomniac's case)

However, Polyphony Digital and Team ICO both take their own sweet time, but nobody cares, because their games are incredible.

Guerilla probably wanted to spend time on Killzone 2 so it wouldn't end up as bugged as the original.

So, Sony isn't going to rush PD or Team ICO, but Guerilla should speed themselves up.

Besides, Gears of War 2 wasn't exactly changed massively from the original, was it? Not that that's a bad thing.

I can tell you without any doubts, people care, esp... the ones who have invested in those studios.  Every company has its own internal deadlines and goals.  And when you get companies that are continually blowing those they will eventually have huge problems.   If some of these games had come out a year or 2 ago do you thing Sony would be in as big of a mess as they are now?  I would tend to think that it wouldn't be as bad and Sony would probably have a few more sales under its belt.

As for my example with Gears, which company would you rather invest in  1 who has a release every 2 years and doubles the sales of the other.  Or one that continually delays, and sells half as much?  It doesn't matter if the game is similar or whatever, it matters that it has a successful game period.

No really, no they don't.  I want Polyphony Digital and Team ICO to take as long as they think they need.  And I'm pretty sure, I can almost garuntee, neither of these studios are being given deadlines.  You don't push a deadline onto a studio who sells over 2 million demo's @ $40 a piece, or sells 10 million copies every time it releases a retail game.  And while Team ICO games are somewhat niche, they're amazing.  They always have been..and Sony knows this.  There are very VERY few games out there that can compare to the creativity and fun behind Shadow of the Colossus.  Very few..like maybe 1 or 2...all time.

@half as much
I guess it'd be a problem if Gran Turismo didn't have the potential to sell twice as much as Gears.

 

Do you seriously believe GT5 will sale twice as many games as gears 1 and 2?   Even with Gran Turismo being what it is, it will be lucky to sale as many as Gears 2 IMO.

 

EDIT ********************

Sure you don't mind how long it takes, however the people who do matter, like investors DO CARE! 2 words for you Maximizing Profit.



"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."

Quote by- The Imortal John Wayne, the original BADASS!

 

 

 

Phrancheyez on 29 December 2008

I'm going to prove you horribly wrong when I get back to work. Horribly wrong. You should check with your fellow 360 fanboys before making statements like that...they'll even advise you against it.



Groucho on 29 December 2008
Squilliam said:
With 200 employees, a game released every year they would need to sell a Million copies per year to break even pretty much if you included advertising expenses etc. *At full price*

200*100k = $20,000,000 per year for Insomniac.

Epic for example, comparing 2nd party developers is worth far more than Insomniac and they have fewer staff IIRC. Sony at present have too many mediocre developers. Its better to have a few good developers constantly churning out multi-million sellers than a bunch of middling 0.5-1.2 million sales developers.

?

You sure you're not confusing them with Microsoft?  Their games division is a joke, even within MS.

Which one of the following studios is "mediocre", in your opinion?:

 

Naughty Dog: Crash Bandicoot series (PS1), Jak & Daxter series (PS2), Ratchet & Clank engine tech (PS3), Uncharted (PS3), Uncharted 2 (PS3, in development)

Santa Monica: Jet Moto/Jet Racer (PS1), Twisted Metal series (PS1), God of War series (PS2), Warhawk(PS3), God of War 3 (PS3 in dev)

Bend: Syphon Filter series (PS1, PS2, PSP), Resistance PSP (in dev)

Zipper: Mechwarrior 3 (PC, and the best of the series, IMO), Crimson Skies (for XBox), SOCOM series (PS2, PSP), MAG (in dev, for PS3)

Guerrilla Games: Killzone (PS2, PSP), Killzone 2 (in dev, PS3)

Team ICO: Ico (PS2), Shadow of the Colossus (PS2)

London: Getaway series, all Eye stuff (some some PS2 stuff was in Korea), Singstar series, Medievil, WipeOut series

San Diego: Mark of Kri/Rise of the Kasai (PS2), MLB: The Show series, NBA series

*Bigbig (new studio): Pursuit Force series (PSP)

*Foster City (SCEA HQ, experimental studio): That kungfu game with Jet Li (PS2).

 

 

...am I missing any?  I'm still looking for the "mediocre" ones -- the "*" ones are the only ones even close to not qualifying as outstanding.  The list above reads like a "greatest hits of the past 15 years" compilation -- if SCE was a rock band, they would be selling out stadiums until they were 70 years old.  Even Sony's "perma 2nd party" devs are usually rock solid (Sucker Punch, Insomniac).  Sony's software studios are downright stellar.  

They have been losing money on *hardware* and hardware ONLY.  Why on earth would they close, or even reduce (except maybe by some tiny margin) what are probably their most profitable operating units across the entire company?  If anything they should identify, and buy, more fledging-but-awesome studios.  Their studio purchasing record is downright phenominal.