By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Should more games be rated AO?

Final-Fan on 12 August 2007
naznatips said:
Final-Fan said:
naznatips said:
bdbdbd said:
@Final-Fan: Naznatips is saying that the similar people who watch Die Hard, watch the Saw.

No, what I'm saying is Die Hard, just like Saw, is not appropriate for children. This is why it has an R rating. Yes Final-Fan, I am saying Die Hard and Saw are appropriate for the same audiences. Are you saying people should be older than 17 to see Saw? I can't see how that makes much sense. I'd say by age 17 most kids are mature enough to watch a graphic movie like that. What other age requirements would you add? 21? I guess my point is, you're right that Die Hard and Saw are very different. I think Die Hard is probably appropriate for kids down to age 15, but that really doesn't change the rating bracket does it? Yes, Saw is gorey and disgusting, but that doesn't mean you should start expanding age qualifications past reasonable limits. 17 is plenty old enough for a kid to see Saw.

Similarly, a game like Gears of War is a game. Yes, it's gorey, but how could you really expect them to mark that higher than 17 years old? I agree that a Mature rated game does not equal a mature game (or a game targeted at adults) in and of itself, but certainly a 17 year old is mentally capable of playing such a game. Past that it's really pointless to have higher rating standards. I understand Manhunt 2 getting an AO rating, because with the control scheme I think the game is past the point of violent and approaching the point of completely obscene.

Parents do have a responsibility to protect their kids from Mature content, and I agree that it's difficult to do so, but I also believe in the companies rights to publish these games. Kids can sneak into R rated movies too (I know I did when I was young). That doesn't mean that there should be no R rated movies or that the R rating is too low. Honestly, I don't care for Mature rated games very much. I enjoy a couple, but in general I would rather play Mario than Grand Theft Auto. I still believe that they are well within reason to have these games published with a Mature rating. I think Manhunt 2 is a good example that graphic content has its limits, and the ESRB is staying within these reasonable limits with its rating systems.


But that's the whole point of R versus NC-17. You can escort youngsters into R movies but not NC-17 ones. A 15-year-old with an inattentive parent could see Saw, Saw II, and Saw III in theaters, but would not have been able to had they been rated NC-17. NC-17 is indeed a different age restriction than R, and it is one that should have been applied to Saw by your own admission.

Anyway, I think that AO should not be a rating only for the absolute most depraved and sick games; rather, it should differentiate between a game such as Halo 3, with lots of violence and death, and a game like Gears of War, with equivalent amounts of violence and death, but much more explicitly and graphically represented.

And the other part of my OP argument was that the ratings system is broken now because when Manhunt 2 was given its appropriate rating, it caused instant death to that game when all 3 console makers said that there was no place for AO games on their systems. So they're going to cut out just enough gore to get it down to M. That hurts consumers, game developers, and the industry in general. [edit: not to mention the games themselves!]


Well first, the part I highlighted. Of course an inattentive parent could take a 15 year old to see Saw. They could also buy it on DVD for them, even if it was NC-17. You can not take away the reponsibility of parents. It's simply not possible.

Second, you want something to differentiate between Halo and Gears, but age ratings are not that. Information on video games is available to any who seek it. Yes, Gears may be more inappropriate for kids than Halo is, but both are inappropriate. If you are going to buy your child a game rated too old for them it's your responsibility to find out more about that game. The ESRB is telling parents that these games are not appropriate for their kids. If the parents decide to buy those games, the parents need to find out WHY they got those ratings and what the content in the games is. The internet is there for a reason. Don't have the internet? Well there are public libraries you can go to to use the internet as well.

Although this obviously is not the same thing, I think it should apply here as well: Ignorance of the law is not a defense. You can not take away the peoples' rights to make a decision. Polls have shown that more than 75% of this country can't recognize key differences between the two politcal parties, but we still let them vote. You are trying to take these games out of reach of the consumers simply because they might be bought by idiots who don't know what's in them. If you want a more detailed rating system, that's fine, but the AO rating bans games from being published, and that really makes no sense at all.

In summary: Both games are inappropriate. This is marked clearly on the cover of the box. You are making a decision to ignore that fact. Therefore, it is your responsibility to know why that game is not appropriate for your child, when the information is clearly available, not the company's to keep rating games higher and higher so that you know just how inappropriate it is. If you were asking for a more detailed rating system, with more steps in the process, I would understand and maybe see a purpose in this, but what you are requesting is simply ridiculous and would be an abuse of the current system.


 I think you're misinterpreting my agrument.  I see it this way:

 There is a great a difference between the maturity of the game experiences given by Halo 3 and Gears of War as there is between those given by Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3.  Metroid Prime 3 is T, Halo 3 is M, Gears of War ought to be AO.   If the AO rating has already been corrupted into "UNCLEAN!", then I recognize that reality; this is about the principle of the thing.  (Similar to the way we let Fox News viewers into the ballot booth.)  

 I take exception to the idea that the proposition that a game rating category should NOT be doomed to never, ever be used (since all 3 console manufacturers have stated that there is no place on their systems for AO games) should be called abuse.  



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
Legend11 on 12 August 2007

@Final-Fan

How do you know what changes they're making to Manhunt 2?

ps.  Were you outraged over Resident Evil 4?  And did you send a letter to Nintendo demanding they take it off the Gamecube (and the Wii now for that matter)?  Did you ever start an online petition or anything to do that?  (The only reason I'm asking is that I noticed it's on your favorite games list).



Final-Fan on 12 August 2007

Once and for all:

MAYBE THE AO RATING IS TOTALLY RADIOACTIVE AND BEYOND REDEMPTION.  IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN IT IS A BAD THING FOR THE INDUSTRY BECAUSE IT MAKES THINGS MORE DIFFICULT FOR CONSUMERS AND DEVELOPERS ALIKE.  I have said so from the OP on. 

WHEN I SAY THAT GEARS OF WAR SHOULD BE AO I AM NOT SAYING THAT IT SHOULD BE KILLED.  

That is all.  Thank you.  

Agree/disagree? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

naznatips on 12 August 2007

 

I think you're misinterpreting my agrument. I see it this way:

There is a great a difference between the maturity of the game experiences given by Halo 3 and Gears of War as there is between those given by Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3. Metroid Prime 3 is T, Halo 3 is M, Gears of War ought to be AO. If the AO rating has already been corrupted into "UNCLEAN!", then I recognize that reality; this is about the principle of the thing. (Similar to the way we let Fox News viewers into the ballot booth.)

I take exception to the idea that the proposition that a game rating category should NOT be doomed to never, ever be used (since all 3 console manufacturers have stated that there is no place on their systems for AO games) should be called abuse.


Then you and I completely agree.  There probably should be another step in the rating system to differentiate between these titles.



Final-Fan on 12 August 2007
Legend11 said:

@Final-Fan

How do you know what changes they're making to Manhunt 2?


I believe I have heard this reported by various news organizations.  Am I wrong? 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
Legend11 on 12 August 2007
Final-Fan said:
Legend11 said:

@Final-Fan

How do you know what changes they're making to Manhunt 2?


I believe I have heard this reported by various news organizations.  Am I wrong? 

They're appealing the decisions made in various countries and have said they're standing by the game.



Final-Fan on 12 August 2007

Take Two is “determined to bring Manhunt 2 to the consumers for which it was intended, and to do so in a responsible fashion,” and is “evaluating its options” on how to do so.

Since everyone considers AO ratings a death sentence, that ultimately can only mean one thing: bring it down to M.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6307&Itemid=2



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Takashii360 on 12 August 2007
naznatips said:

 

I think you're misinterpreting my agrument. I see it this way:

There is a great a difference between the maturity of the game experiences given by Halo 3 and Gears of War as there is between those given by Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3. Metroid Prime 3 is T, Halo 3 is M, Gears of War ought to be AO. If the AO rating has already been corrupted into "UNCLEAN!", then I recognize that reality; this is about the principle of the thing. (Similar to the way we let Fox News viewers into the ballot booth.)

I take exception to the idea that the proposition that a game rating category should NOT be doomed to never, ever be used (since all 3 console manufacturers have stated that there is no place on their systems for AO games) should be called abuse.


Then you and I completely agree.  There probably should be another step in the rating system to differentiate between these titles.


But Gears of War is fake, Metriod is fake considering there is no real-life re-lating to it....But GTA should be considered AO because of its content involving shooting other humans...I believe that the rating should be changed closey too!!




 
Final-Fan on 12 August 2007
Legend11 said:

@Final-Fan

How do you know what changes they're making to Manhunt 2?

ps. Were you outraged over Resident Evil 4? And did you send a letter to Nintendo demanding they take it off the Gamecube (and the Wii now for that matter)? Did you ever start an online petition or anything to do that? (The only reason I'm asking is that I noticed it's on your favorite games list).


Apparently you think I am trying to . . . no, I don't even know what you're trying to say.  Maybe that I want more games to get AO so they can be killed like Manhunt 2 was.  You obviously haven't bothered to read the posts. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Legend11 on 12 August 2007
Final-Fan said:
Legend11 said:

@Final-Fan

How do you know what changes they're making to Manhunt 2?

ps. Were you outraged over Resident Evil 4? And did you send a letter to Nintendo demanding they take it off the Gamecube (and the Wii now for that matter)? Did you ever start an online petition or anything to do that? (The only reason I'm asking is that I noticed it's on your favorite games list).


Apparently you think I am trying to . . . no, I don't even know what you're trying to say.  Maybe that I want more games to get AO so they can be killed like Manhunt 2 was.  You obviously haven't bothered to read the posts. 

No I'm simply asking you how you felt about Resident Evil 4.  Outrage?

*Edit: Oops nevermind I never noticed your reply when someone else called you out on it.  Too bad, I thought you were a man of conviction but instead you allow certain games a free pass.  Damn why did you waste peoples' time like that?  I don't mind people being fanboys (I'm sure people think I'm one) but there's nothing more annoying than fanboys holding games on other systems to a higher standard than ones on their own.