MikeB said: Looking back I think the PS3 has surely seen the biggest amount of unreasonable bashing. And actually vocal 360 fans have by far spread the most misinformation and FUD, formulated nearly always as fact rather than opinion. I anticipate things to get really ugly in 2009, although I think US media (which has been horrible for a large part) will probably become a little more balanced overall.

Given the PS3's current sales position, I wouldn't call the vast majority of criticism levelled at the platform unreasonable.  The third party exclusives and competitive pricepoint that were the hallmarks of it's predecessor's success no longer exist, and it's most graphically advanced title (KZ2) looks to be only minimally sleeker than Gears of War 2, which had half the development time and cost between 1/6 and 1/10 to make relative to KZ2.

Given Sony's promises and the above facts, I'd say it's unreasonable to label criticism of the PS3 unreasonable

 

starcraft said: MikeB said: Looking back I think the PS3 has surely seen the biggest amount of unreasonable bashing. And actually vocal 360 fans have by far spread the most misinformation and FUD, formulated nearly always as fact rather than opinion. I anticipate things to get really ugly in 2009, although I think US media (which has been horrible for a large part) will probably become a little more balanced overall. Given the PS3's current sales position, I wouldn't call the vast majority of criticism levelled at the platform unreasonable.  The third party exclusives and competitive pricepoint that were the hallmarks of it's predecessor's success no longer exist, and it's most graphically advanced title (KZ2) looks to be only minimally sleeker than Gears of War 2, which had half the development time and cost between 1/6 and 1/10 to make relative to KZ2. Given Sony's promises and the above facts, I'd say it's unreasonable to label criticism of the PS3 unreasonable

 

it's clear you haven't play killzone 2, minimal is not what people and reviewers are reporting, but WAY better than gears 2.

gears 2 a game that can be done on the ps3, like UT3 ;)

@ starcraft

Of course, you can criticize Sony for making the PS3 too high spec (in your opinion) impacting entry pricing, you can criticize Sony for not releasing enough JRPGs early on within its lifecycle, you can criticize Sony's US staff for their many bad PR statements and seemingly ineffective weird advertising, etc.

However in addition there have been lots of wild claims, misinformation and FUD floating around (lots of propaganda). Unreasonable bashing. It's often done by the people and media who were rooting for HD DVD and bashing Blu-Ray as well though.

The PS3 performs well in Europe, Japan is a bit sleeping but I think will explode soon enough with anticipation for Final Fantasy. The United States is a bit of a worry for Sony considering the influence of biased commerical media, but I think this will gradually change next year (or rather they can't keep this up IMO). It's clear however Sony couldn't afford to sell the PS3 at Wii levels early on, for that the technology was and to a much lesser extend still is too expensive.

Jo21 said: starcraft said: MikeB said: Looking back I think the PS3 has surely seen the biggest amount of unreasonable bashing. And actually vocal 360 fans have by far spread the most misinformation and FUD, formulated nearly always as fact rather than opinion. I anticipate things to get really ugly in 2009, although I think US media (which has been horrible for a large part) will probably become a little more balanced overall. Given the PS3's current sales position, I wouldn't call the vast majority of criticism levelled at the platform unreasonable.  The third party exclusives and competitive pricepoint that were the hallmarks of it's predecessor's success no longer exist, and it's most graphically advanced title (KZ2) looks to be only minimally sleeker than Gears of War 2, which had half the development time and cost between 1/6 and 1/10 to make relative to KZ2. Given Sony's promises and the above facts, I'd say it's unreasonable to label criticism of the PS3 unreasonable it's clear you haven't play killzone 2, minimal is not what people and reviewers are reporting, but WAY better than gears 2. gears 2 a game that can be done on the ps3, like UT3 ;)

I have watched high definintion direct feed video of Killzone 2, essentially the same thing, and can report that it is not a significant step up from Gears 2, and in fact falls below it in areas such as tectures (though it has superior lighting).

Outside of PS3fanboy.com, I'm not aware of any significcant publication claiming KZ2 looks far and away better than GeoW2.

 

@ starcraft

Killzone 2 is way beyond Gears 2 technically speaking, also its texture quality.

starcraft said: Jo21 said: starcraft said: MikeB said: Looking back I think the PS3 has surely seen the biggest amount of unreasonable bashing. And actually vocal 360 fans have by far spread the most misinformation and FUD, formulated nearly always as fact rather than opinion. I anticipate things to get really ugly in 2009, although I think US media (which has been horrible for a large part) will probably become a little more balanced overall. Given the PS3's current sales position, I wouldn't call the vast majority of criticism levelled at the platform unreasonable.  The third party exclusives and competitive pricepoint that were the hallmarks of it's predecessor's success no longer exist, and it's most graphically advanced title (KZ2) looks to be only minimally sleeker than Gears of War 2, which had half the development time and cost between 1/6 and 1/10 to make relative to KZ2. Given Sony's promises and the above facts, I'd say it's unreasonable to label criticism of the PS3 unreasonable it's clear you haven't play killzone 2, minimal is not what people and reviewers are reporting, but WAY better than gears 2. gears 2 a game that can be done on the ps3, like UT3 ;) I have watched high definintion direct feed video of Killzone 2, essentially the same thing, and can report that it is not a significant step up from Gears 2, and in fact falls below it in areas such as tectures (though it has superior lighting). Outside of PS3fanboy.com, I'm not aware of any significcant publication claiming KZ2 looks far and away better than GeoW2.

 

thats because you havent seen new footage and the killzone 2 thread review copies were sent recently :)

MikeB said: @ starcraft Given the PS3's current sales position, I wouldn't call the vast majority of criticism levelled at the platform unreasonable. Of course, you can criticize Sony for making the PS3 too high spec (in your opinion) impacting entry pricing, you can criticize Sony for not releasing enough JRPGs early on within its lifecycle, you can criticize Sony's US staff for their many bad PR statements and seemingly ineffective weird advertising, etc. However in addition there have been lots of wild claims, misinformation and FUD floating around (lots of propaganda). Unreasonable bashing. It's often done by the people and media who were rooting for HD DVD and bashing Blu-Ray as well though. The PS3 performs well in Europe, Japan is a bit sleeping but will explode soon enough with Final Fantasy. The United States is a bit of a worry considering the influence of biased media, but I think this will gradually change next year. It's clear however Sony couldn't have afforded to sell the PS3 at Wii levels early on, for that the technology was and to a much lesser extend still is too expensive.

Do you seriously look at this post and not see the inherant bias with which you type?  It's quite ironic given the post is meant to be a critic of media-negativity.

I was not criticising the PS3 for being too "high spec."  I was criticising it for being too highly priced.  As yet, there is no substantial proof that the PS3 can deliver a performance advantage significant enough to have any effect whatsoever on mainstream console adoption.  As for JRPG's, I personally am disappointed in Sony as a fan of the genre, but outside of Japan the games hardly effect sales (see below for FFXIII).  Ditto for press releases read by only a few million hardcore gamers at most. 

What do you think this misinformation is?  What effect do you actually believe it has on mainstream console adoption?  Blu-Ray clearly did provide a short-lived boost to PS3 sales, a boost that has now been rendered moot by cheaper players.  Do not even begin to pretend that the inclusion of Blu-Ray has helped the PS3, or ever will.  You may argue that it has helped Sony long-term by winning it the format war (I believe it will of small consequence compared to the fall of Playstation, but I'm not getting into that argument), but continuing to believe that Blu-Ray will lead to higher PS3 sales than if the console had launched at $400 with DVD9 is folly and nothing more.

The PS3 does perform well in Europe (relative to other regions), but not relative to other consoles.  It is being flattened by the Wii, and the advent of the financial crisis suddenly means that price will be far more important to the consumer over the next two years, a clear advantage for the Xbox 360.  Japan was meant to explode over Metal Gear Solid 4, DMC 4 and a couple of other titles and it did not.  FFXIII arriving will boost the PS3 for two months at most, and then it will be sleeping again.

The PS3 is in a negative cycle.  Declining sales relative to other platforms equals less game support from third parties, which in turn equals less game revenue and console purchases for the business.  This will not reverse.

 

dont argue with starcraft, he's my god besides the j-man.

Jo21 said: starcraft said: I have watched high definintion direct feed video of Killzone 2, essentially the same thing, and can report that it is not a significant step up from Gears 2, and in fact falls below it in areas such as tectures (though it has superior lighting). Outside of PS3fanboy.com, I'm not aware of any significcant publication claiming KZ2 looks far and away better than GeoW2. thats because you havent seen new footage and the killzone 2 thread review copies were sent recently :)

 

See that's interesting because Sony fanboys have been telling me for months Killzone 2 was done for December but was delayed so it wouldnt destroy Resistance 2.  After four years in development you think something that happened in the last two months is going to take the game from marginally better looking than Gears 2 in some respects to completely incomparable?

@MikeB

Yeah mate, right.  Must just be my eyes that are stuffed.

MikeB said: @ starcraft Killzone 2 is way beyond Gears 2 technically speaking, also its texture quality.

 

I can't see the 'IMO', 'I think', or 'AFAIK' pretense to your claim here. I'm not doubting that it will have better graphics...but "way beyond"?? Please tell me you've got quotes from the developers with texture resolution sizes to boast this as fact.

With all the latest unreal engine 3 advancements put to use in Gears 2 as this video demonstrates I don't think Killzone 2 is "way beyond" anything.