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Forums - General Discussion - Help me identify this fallacy (if it is one)

frybread on 16 December 2008

Someone replies to reasoning and evidence with a contradictory statement, but doesn't provide any evidence or reasoning for their statement.

I have a suspicion this argument style is a fallacy, but don't know which one.  Can anyone identify it?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

 
(Fake) Example: 


"While we are in a recession, the car industry is experiencing enormous growth. I think YoY the total revenue is up 20%.

The SUV development model is clearly unsustainable. If an average SUV will only break even at 1 million sold (let alone see a significant ROI) there's something terribly wrong with the industry.

Sure the Tundras and Escalades will earn a nice sum of money, but even something like Hummer looks like it's going to make a loss. Despite it will likely end up selling a million.

Most Japanese car makers have focused on Hybrids, are increasing their compact development and are having less SUVs. For some reason Western automakers are unwilling or unable to shift their focus to hybrids"



"You grossly overestimate the cost of SUVs"



PC + Wii owners unite.  Our last-gen dying platforms have access to nearly every 90+ rated game this gen.  Building a PC that visually outperforms PS360 is cheap and easy.    Oct 7th 2010 predictions (made Dec 17th '08)
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Thatmax on 16 December 2008

I think "straw man" applies in a way, as they are giving an incorrect statistic and using that to enhance their argument.

 

I did a year of Critical Thinking for an AS level, it was bloody hard : ( we did lots of this stuff



appolose on 16 December 2008

I don't think it's a fallacy; giving a single statement can't really involve faulty reasoning (in and of itself). I could say "Unicorns live on the moon", and that wouldn't be fallacious, with or without reasoning or evidence (ignoring "vacuous truth"). It's just that no one will probably believe me.



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To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

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frybread on 16 December 2008

So if there's no reasoning, there's no fallacy.

I guess the only fallacy here was me thinking it was a fallacy!

thanks appolose



PC + Wii owners unite.  Our last-gen dying platforms have access to nearly every 90+ rated game this gen.  Building a PC that visually outperforms PS360 is cheap and easy.    Oct 7th 2010 predictions (made Dec 17th '08)
PC: 10^9
Wii: 10^8

appolose on 16 December 2008

No problem!
I wouldn't call it a fallacy to misidentify, either ;)



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz
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akuma587 on 16 December 2008

If you are talking about the bolded part, are they referencing the manufacturing cost or the consumer cost?

It is something akin to a straw man argument because it is entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter that something manufacturing cost is low if no one buys it.

If I can make a million goat hamburgers for half the cost of a million beef hamburgers but only 10% of the market wants goat and 50% of the market wants beef, what difference does it make that goat hamburgers are cheaper? GM and the others problem is they haven't been focusing on making their car sales profitable and have relied solely on their SUV sales.



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frybread on 16 December 2008
akuma587 said:
If you are talking about the bolded part, are they referencing the manufacturing cost or the consumer cost?

Manufacturing cost.

 

The argument itself is entirely fake, it's a game argument and I just changed around the words to "SUV" and "GM" rather than game companies.  I didn't want any bias, I just wanted to identify the fallacy.

 



PC + Wii owners unite.  Our last-gen dying platforms have access to nearly every 90+ rated game this gen.  Building a PC that visually outperforms PS360 is cheap and easy.    Oct 7th 2010 predictions (made Dec 17th '08)
PC: 10^9
Wii: 10^8

Commando on 16 December 2008

I don't think it's a fallacy, its just a non-developed retort.

Barely a sentance at that.

As for the sistuatuion in general I would classify that as - populiidiocracy



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Thatmax on 17 December 2008

If there is something wrong with an argument then 99.9% of the time it is a named fallacy, its just hard to link it to which one considering how many there are and sometimes its not obvious what s wrong the statements.



Timmah! on 17 December 2008
frybread said:

Someone replies to reasoning and evidence with a contradictory statement, but doesn't provide any evidence or reasoning for their statement.

I have a suspicion this argument style is a fallacy, but don't know which one.  Can anyone identify it?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

 
(Fake) Example: 


"While we are in a recession, the car industry is experiencing enormous growth. I think YoY the total revenue is up 20%.

The SUV development model is clearly unsustainable. If an average SUV will only break even at 1 million sold (let alone see a significant ROI) there's something terribly wrong with the industry.

Sure the Tundras and Escalades will earn a nice sum of money, but even something like Hummer looks like it's going to make a loss. Despite it will likely end up selling a million.

Most Japanese car makers have focused on Hybrids, are increasing their compact development and are having less SUVs. For some reason Western automakers are unwilling or unable to shift their focus to hybrids"



"You grossly overestimate the cost of SUVs"

Bare Assertion Fallacy- premise in an argument is assumed to be true purely because it says that it is true. No facts or proof are given.