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Forums - General - Global Warming. Fact or fiction??

It is a fact world is warming. The debate is what causes the warming and if humans should act to prevent it.



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NintendoMan said:
It is fiction. However I see no reason not to make an effort to vastly reduce mankind's damaging effects on the environment.

How can you say it is fiction? There is scientific evidence proving that Earth's temperature has been rising over the past century. Now if it is natural for this to happen or are humans to blame for the warming is the true argument.

akuma587 said:
It's better to err on the side of being safe than sorry. Every time environmentalists come up with some "new scam," many people claim it is unfounded. Think the DDT debacle, holes in the ozone layer, species going extinct, etc. A lot of people claimed that environmentalists were just "making it all up."

I'm all for scientific evaluation of a problem, but simply because we can't make a scientific model for something doesn't mean it isn't happening. We still don't have a model that completely explains how gravity works, and only had a rudimentary understanding of it until this century. Does that mean we just made gravity up since scientists couldn't make a model that fully explained it? No, that is a completely ludicrous argument.

I'm not saying global warming is 100% fact or anything, but some people dismiss it far too hastily.

 

Close.  We may not have a perfect model for how gravity does what it does, but the current model can predict perfectly (i.e. more accurately than our ability to measure deviance) what gravitational behavior will be for a system of objects.  Climate science doesn't even come close to gravity when it comes to precision of the model. 

I'd say that personally I'm more of a skeptic, especially as the past several years have failed to continue the upward climb for temperatures. 

The measured relationship between temperature and CO2 levels in the atmosphere is correlative. but people want to draw causal conclusions from them which is unwise.  That may be the case, but it could also easily be the other way.  Seawater contains loads of dissolved CO2, and how much it can dissolve varies inversely with temperature.  This means that when temperatures rise oceans can't contain as much dissolved CO2, and the excess is released.  Just one plausible scenario.



Hawkeye said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Thatmax said:
fact, I cant be bothered to debate so Im just gonna put my opinion. What would the media have to gain from global warming?

 

 Well, not from global warming itself, but the media gains a lot from scaremongering, people are much more likely to buy a newspaper if it's headline involves them dieing the next day.

 

Anyways, I don't really know, and neither does anyone else on this forum. They like to think that they know, but instead, they just side with the politicians that they agree with.

 

What did the media have to gain from the bird flu scare? (which is as big of a threat now then it has ever been, but people think its gone becuase the media isn't covering it anymore). Scientists get funding, media gets money, politicans get power and can get stupid shit passed by caliming its to "fight global warming" (while many scients have stated that we are trending towards and ice age, and that even now the earth warming a few degrees would increase human prosperity overall)

 

Bird Flu was a big deal for a reason, it could have easily become the foot and mouth of poultry, luckily farmers were under strict instruction to let people know when a bird was found dead with unknown causes so the few cases in the UK were contained very well. The media never actually lied about it they just thought that each dead flock was the start of the major outbreak as all the papers wanted to be the first on the case, however none of them ended up that one.

 

The worry still hasnt passed for bird flu the papers just got sick of reporting every little thing about it.



Fact!

I'm not gonna bother arguing with these fanatic religious people that cannot be convinced but I'll say this:

1) People worrying that the North-pole will melt are really stupid: the Law of Archimedes states that Ice that drifts on water and melts DOESN'T cause a rise in waterlevels. Only if Greenland and the South-Pole melt we have a problem! And as we all know, water holds heat better (which is why the Gulfstream creates a really mild habitat in Western Europe compared to, for example East-Canada. Which lies at the same distance from the Northpole). As in; Hot water from the equators goes up along Western Europe and makes for a mild, well lifeable climate. Then turns round, cools down and goes back to the equator as cold water along the Eastcoast of America. In short.

*Note: f the Northpole melts = byebye polarbear... Which saddens me! Seriously!

2) If the Northpole is gone, there is no Ice to melt the water from the Gulfstream, so the Gulfstream will be interupted. Resulting in another Ice-age... It's like a bi-metal, if the temperature gets too hot it short-circuits and the whole cirkel falls apart! = Goodbye mild climate in Europe. And seelevels will fall with 10's of meters.

3) Just look at the raw data. There's WAY more CO2 in the air then EVER in recorded history... And people who say; Blah, we only have 100 years of data. No we haven't! We have like 300.000 years of data. Ice encapses bubbles of air in them which reflect the build-up of the atmosphere! (as in for example 79% N2, 20% O2, 0.02% O3 etc...). So we can look at the number of parts per million (ppm) of CO2 in the air! Which are at their highest in 300.000 years! And it's because of us, just do the math! we pump Billions of metric tons of CO2 in the air a year!

4) For all the people who say it's bullshit! You are naïeve, narrow minded people. The same that all say bleh, I can't make a difference, so I'm just going to consume as much as I can! Narrow-minded I'm calling those! It really saddens me how much of those people there are! I'm guessing more than 80% is like that. And yes, there ARE a lot of dumb people out there! It never seizes to amaze me!

 

Thanks for reading. I won't respond because I'm not going to argue with people. I tried a few times ago but it always turns into a yes it is/no it isn't... kinda fight! And those hardcore religious fanatics CANNOT, in any way, be convinced! When you think you have them in a corner they always have the argument that It's God's will! And then the quote; Just proof I'm wrong!... And you just simply can't proof their wrong! It's the same as saying; After death you'll be sitting in a ferriswheel. Forever! Go ahead, just proof I'm wrong!



THE NETHERLANDS

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Well, the icecaps ARE melting...arent they?



I hope my 360 doesn't RRoD
         "Suck my balls!" - Tag courtesy of Fkusmot

It is fact and that's been proven, it's the causes of it that are debated. Well, I'd assume it was. But then many factors are to be considered, even down to the fact we haven't had a proper large volcanic eruption in many years and they are commonly known to lower the the earths temperature afterwards.



Hmm, pie.

nordlead said:
I'm of the belief that it isn't fact, as the world is to complicated to make a valid model of. 1 tiny little error in your model could lead to global warming or global cooling. Also, we only have what, about 100 years worth of actual temperature recordings? Past that we just guesstimate to suit our model.

Also, the same scientists that believe in global warming now, believed in global cooling 40 years ago and wanted to emit tons of CO2 so as to increase the earths temperature.

Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be energy efficient or anything like that, as that is just being smart and efficient.

and this will be my last post in this thread, as it will quickly erupt into a giant debate that I don't wish to be part of, but since I'm first I will post.

 

Correct, recorded temps go back to 1889 in most areas.  Sufficient global temperature recording wasn't started until the 1970's and sufficient ocean temperature recording was not implemented until the 1990's.  So the data for their model is very limited and weak.

 

I am a strong beiever in global warming(as marketed in the world) being nothing more than a global scandal instituted to aid the largest redistribution of wealth ever.  There is more evidence to support this conspiracy than to support the global warming argument, such as the largest investors in research of global warming are at the forefront of the redistribution of wealth.

 

Also, huge lie: carbon emitted from automobiles is one of the leading sources of ozone CO2 levels.  It's a total garbage of a lie.  CO2 emitted from vehicles isn't a barrier gas.

 

Global Warming is a marketed phrase.  It is fictional based off of loose interpretations of real data.  Climate change in relation to the human effect on climate is the scientific question.  Yes the climate is changing, but it is evident that this is a natural cycle of earth.  The question is, to what extent has man impacted this.  It is equally as foolish to say man is responsible for climate change or has not impacted the climate.  When it boils down to it, thereis no feasible way to make a correct analysis of this due to the incredibly small sample size of recorded data and the large natural cycle of Earth's climate.



As people have said, Global Warming IS real. The only debate is whether or not it is man-made or not.
Also, one thing that has always annoyed me is when people see the issue only along party lines. It's far more than a political issue and I wish more people would realize that.

My personal position is that I don't know, and I think it's foolish for people to claim they know. This issue is incredibly complicated and will require much more study until we can say we definitely know whether or not global warming is man made.
I also think it doesn't really matter. We should be doing all we can (within reason) to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and save energy.



Hawkeye said:
HappySqurriel said:

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”

Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists,” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.

“The [global warming] scaremongering has its justification in the fact that it is something that generates funds.” - Award-winning Paleontologist Dr. Eduardo Tonni, of the Committee for Scientific Research in Buenos Aires and head of the Paleontology Department at the University of La Plata

Fantastic. This is what I mean by dissenting opinions on global warming. Absoulty fantastic find, happysqurriel.

 

 

Speaking of media, where did you find these quotes?

 

Look, wev'e just released a planned 5% cut by 2020 in Australia. Most people, 55% in one poll believe its not enough, in fact its weak and pathetic. When your proven wrong it will be too late and your children (and yourselves) will have excessive food, energy and secuirity costs to try and deal with the ramifications of drought, water rising and ice melting.

And to those people who are skeptics, if you have children or are thinking of having them consider what the potential impacts could be on their lives.

Its worse than terrorism.

And if you dont know anything about the science, or don't believe what other scientists know either, why don't you look at some mountains yourself. Go up to canada and look at some glaciers. Go to Antarctica or some shit.

If all ice in the Hymillayas melts in the next 40 yrs, as is predicted, over 2 billion people will have insufficient water to grow rice. 2 billion people is a big problem, its not a joke anymore is it.

 



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.