steven787 said: Now is not the time for them to stockpile for Christmas, for either MS or Sony. Both companies are planning major production cost reductions soon, but not yet.

Well, depends. Sony is clearly overproducing at the moment. They have to stockpile these units. Even if they don't keep it til christmass. Look it that way. Lets say they shipping that units out next month, where do the units produce next month will go? Replacing the old ones in the warehouse. If Sony has produced more then they could ship (or sell) to retailer last quarter that they have a stock :)

When companies overproduce the only thing they can do is stockpile.

mitsuhide said: When companies overproduce the only thing they can do is stockpile.

Thats my point. And everything you put in stock is a loss at the moment (operational). And the only way to get rid of the stock is under producing. If Sony has more in stock for Christmas than planned, its likely they lower production this Quarter. Why keep overproducing? Especially if the production cost with be lower later (Blue Ray e.g). How many units has Sony overproduce last quarter (meaning in their stock and got no money for it)? I randomly guess 500 k? If you say averaged the production cost of one was 600$ you have easily a explanation for the loss of 300 Million. I know it has to be more, because other parts (PS2, PSP) are making profit, just want to show how fast such things can make a difference. If you expect Sony to lower production this quarter, the loss will be less, thats all I'm trying to say.

 

@FilaBrasileiro

Net incomes / losses ( in US$ million ) Sega, MSH&E, SCE, Nintendo and EA from FY 1997 onward ( from 1 April 1996 to 31 March 2007, updated to Q1 FY 2008 ) :

FY____Sony(CE)__Nintendo__Microsoft(H&E)___EA______Sega
1997_______________________________________________46.4
1998____974______629_______________________________-389
1999__1,130_______645___________________72.9________-450
2000____730______421___________________116.8______-398.1
2001___-409_______726___________________-11.1_______-438
2002____623______800______-750__________101.5_______-169 ( Sega first half FY )
2003____939______560_____-1,191___________317__________
2004____650______316_____-1,215___________577__________
2005____404______777______-485*___________504__________
2006_____75______894_____-1,262___________236__________
2007__-1,969____1,474_____-1,892____________76___________
Totals  3,147**     7,242**      -6,795***          1,990.1**     -1,797.7****
 
( * Revision from following FY report ; ** Totals as 31 March 2007 ; *** Totals as 30 June 2007, **** Totals as 30 September 2001 )

Current fiscal year ( update on 30 June 2007 ) :
2008___-237______668______-000___________-132
Totals  2,910       7,910         -6,795              1,858.1

SCE eras :
Partial net incomes PS1 era ( from FY 1998 to FY 2000 ) : US$ 2,834 .
Total net incomes PS2 era ( from FY 2001 to FY 2006 ) : US$ 2,282  ( included PSP and PS1 incomes ).
Partial net incomes ( losses ) PS3 era ( from FY 2007 FY to Q1 FY 2008 ) : US$ -2,206 ( included PSP and PS2 incomes )

Nintendo eras :
Partial net incomes N64 era ( from FY 1998 to FY 2001 ) : US$ 2,421 ( included GB incomes ).
Total net incomes GC era ( from FY 2002 to FY 2006 ) : US$ 3,347 ( included GBA and DS incomes ).
Partial net incomes Wii era ( from FY 2007 to Q1 FY 2008 ) : US$ 2,142 ( included GBA and DS incomes ).

MSH&E eras :
Total net incomes ( losses ) Xbox era ( from FY 2002  to FY 2005 ) : US$ -3,641 ( included PC games incomes ).
Partial net incomes ( losses ) Xbox360 era ( from FY 2006 to FY 2007 ) : US$ -3,160 ( included PC games and Zune incomes ) .

NB :
Sony fiscal year 2006 was from 1 April 2006 to 31 march 2007.
EA and Nintendo fiscal year 2007 was from 1 April 2006 to 31 march 2007 ( Above figures use this type of Fiscal Year ) .
Microsoft fiscal year 2007 was from 1 July 2006 to 30 June 2007.


MS Home & Entertainment  :

MSH&E  Annual net incomes / losses ( in US$ million ) :
FY 2002 ( end 30 june 2002 ) : -750 | Xbox launch
FY 2003 ( end 30 june 2003 ) : -1,191
FY 2004 ( end 30 june 2004 ) : -1,215
FY 2005 ( end 30 june 2005 ) : -391; revision : -485 | MSH&E best year ever thanks to Halo2 release
FY 2006 ( end 30 june 2006 ) : -1,262 | Xbox 360 launch
FY 2007 ( end 30 june 2007 ) : -1,892 | Extended RRoD Warranty and Zune launch

Quarter break down ( net incomes / losses in US$ million ) :
Q1 2005: -142
Q2 2005: 84 | Halo 2 release
Q3 2005: -154
Q4 2005: -179 ( -391; revision : -485  )
Q1 2006: -141
Q2 2006: -293
Q3 2006: -388
Q4 2006: -414 ( -1,262 )
Q1 2007: -96
Q2 2007: -289
Q3 2007: -315
Q4 2007: -1199 ( -1,892 ) | Extend RRoD Warranty

Sony Computer Enterteinment :

SCE  Annual net incomes / losses ( in US$ million ) :
FY 1997 ( end 31 march 1998 ) : 974
FY 1998 ( end 31 march 1999 ) : 1,130 | SCE best year ever
FY 1999 ( end 31 march 2000 ) : 730
FY 2000 ( end 31 march 2001 ) : -409 | PS2 launch
FY 2001 ( end 31 march 2002 ) : 623
FY 2002 ( end 31 march 2003 ) : 939
FY 2003 ( end 31 march 2004 ) : 650
FY 2004 ( end 31 march 2005 ) : 404 | PSP launch ( in America and Japan )
FY 2005 ( end 31 march 2006 ) : 75
FY 2006 ( end 31 march 2001 ) : -1,969 | PS3 launch , SCE worst year ever
FY 2007 ( update to Q1 FY 2007 , end 31 march 2008 ) : -237

Quarter break down ( net incomes / losses in US$ million ) :
Q1 2004: -27
Q2 2004: 0 | small loss rounded to zero
Q3 2004: 433
Q4 2004: 14  ( 404 )
Q1 2005: -54
Q2 2005: 73
Q3 2005: 575
Q4 2005: -525 ( 75 )
Q1 2006: -233
Q2 2006: -369
Q3 2006: -455
Q4 2006: -914 ( -1,969 )
Q1 2007: -237

Nintendo :

Nintendo  Annual net incomes / losses ( in US$ million ) :
FY 1998 ( end 31 march 1998 ) : 629
FY 1999 ( end 31 march 1999 ) : 645
FY 2000 ( end 31 march 2000 ) : 421
FY 2001 ( end 31 march 2001 ) : 726
FY 2002 ( end 31 march 2002 ) : 800 | GBA and GC launches
FY 2003 ( end 31 march 2003 ) : 560
FY 2004 ( end 31 march 2004 ) : 316
FY 2005 ( end 31 march 2005 ) : 777 | NDS launch worlwide
FY 2006 ( end 31 march 2006 ) : 894 | NDS Lite launch worldwide
FY 2007 ( end 31 march 2007 ) : 1,474 | Wii launch worldwide; Best profit ever for a gaming company ( atleast in last decade )
FY 2008 ( update to Q1 FY 2008 , end 31 march 2008 ) : 668 | Strong performance of DS and Wii

Quarter break down ( net incomes / losses in US$ million ) :
Q1 2005: 209
Q2 2005: 214
Q3 2005: 204
Q4 2005: 183 ( 777 )
Q1 2006: 128
Q2 2006: 199
Q3 2006: 471
Q4 2006: 53 ( 894 )
Q1 2007: 135
Q2 2007: 329
Q3 2007: 651
Q4 2007: 359 ( 1,474 )
Q1 2008: 668

Electronic Arts :

EA Annual net incomes / losses ( in US$ million ) :
FY 1999 ( end 31 march 1999 ) : 72.9
FY 2000 ( end 31 march 2000 ) : 116.8
FY 2001 ( end 31 march 2001 ) : -11.1 | Transition from 32/64 bit systems to 128 bit systems
FY 2002 ( end 31 march 2002 ) : 101.5 ( R&D : 380 )
FY 2003 ( end 31 march 2003 ) : 317 ( R&D : 400 )
FY 2004 ( end 31 march 2004 ) : 577 ( R&D : 511 ) | EA had 27 platinium games ( over 1 million units sold ) in this fiscal year, 6 franchises sold over 5 milion units.
FY 2005 ( end 31 march 2005 ) : 504 ( R&D : 633 ) | EA had 31 platinium games ( over 1 million units sold ) in this fiscal year, 6 franchises sold over 5 milion units.
FY 2006 ( end 31 march 2006 ) : 236 ( R&D : 758 )
FY 2007 ( end 31 march 2007 ) : 76 ( R&D : 1041 ) | EA's CEO : "[This transition has been] harder because of the complexity and harder because unfortunately, we bet a little bit on the wrong horse in focusing so much on the PS3 and Xbox 360, and to a lesser degree on the Wii. "
FY 2008 ( update to Q1 FY 2008 , end 31 march 2008 ) : -132 ( R&D : 250 )

Quarter break down ( net incomes / losses in US$ million ) :
Q1 2005: 24
Q2 2005: 97
Q3 2005: 375
Q4 2005: 8 ( 504 )
Q1 2006: 58
Q2 2006: 51
Q3 2006: 259
Q4 2006: -16 ( 236 )
Q1 2007: -81
Q2 2007: 22
Q3 2007: 160
Q4 2007: -25 ( 76 )
Q1 2008: -132

“We’ve become a niche,” Riccitiello [ EA Ceo ] told the Times. “Eighty, 90 percent of the resources that are put into play by us and most of our competition are in building sequels of games that super-serve teenage boys with fast thumbs.”

EA's revenues have been completely stagnant for the past four years ( about US$ 3 billion ); they've essentially seen zero revenue growth while their costs (especially R&D) have steadily been rising. Meanwhile, the company continues to churn out sequel after sequel, appealing to the same core demographic of fans.


All data is from financial reports of respective company.

Sega Enterprise :

Sega had grown from a US$813 million company in 1989 - the year that the Genesis launched - to a US$3.6 billion dollar conglomerate by the end of 1993.

Profits in US$ million :

FY 1993 ( end 31 march 1994 ) : 230 | Sega best year ever
Partial FY 1994 ( end 31 march 1995 ) - from Q2 to Q3 : 165
Partial FY 1995 ( end 31 march 1996 ) - from Q2 to Q3 : 110 ( Sega forecast 163 )
FY 1996 ( end 31 march 1997 ) : 46.4 | Sega last profitable fiscal year
FY 1997 ( end 31 march 1998 ) : -389
FY 1998 ( end 31 march 1999 ) : -450
FY 1999 ( end 31 march 2000 ) : -398.1
FY 2000 ( end 31 march 2001 ) : -51.7 Billion Yen (  about US$ -438, US$ 1 = 118 yen )
FY 2001 ( end 31 march 2002 ) - first half FY: -169

Source :
http://www.eidolons-inn.net/segabase/ ( Shut down recently, sigh )
http://www.ign.com   --- sezione IGN DC
http://www.gamasutra.com

Thanks to DreamsCasted and Bodhesatva for some info.

L.F. Céline

Sony really dont need to make any more PS3 for awhile because they overproduced the 60GB by like 3million and the 80GB has probably about 1million in stock so they dont need to make many units or any for that matter and just let PSP and PS2 sales bring in a few million profit for them.

@Celine:
Nice info very helpful.

So from that if Sony losses the same amount every Q that they did in Q1 then they should lose about 900million over the year and then the next year is the break even point,well where they want to break even.

Microsoft will probably keep losing money for awhile to come.Except for Halo3 launch where they will earn money.

EA is hopefully(crosses fingers)going to go bankrupt if R&D expenses keep rising and they keep earning the same amount each year there profits will go down its the beginning of the end for EA.....finally.

SEGA is in alot of trouble and someone needs to buy them out if they lose another 438million this year.

Nintendo always does well and never seen a loss and is about to probably enter there GoldenEra of Profits.

FilaBrasileiro said: stranne said: DoesWhatNintenDont, Sorry for the late reply.   I may have a very naive and simplified view of things, but this is how I see it. (quarterly) Sony: PS2 = good profit, decreasing PS3= huge losses, won't go away for some time BluRay = small profit now, huge potential   MS: X360 = huge losses, will soon break even and make a (small) profit Live = some profit now, huge potential   Sony did great with PS2, but they're digging themselves deeper and deeper into a hole with PS3. MS got into a deep financial hole with XB, but are getting themselves up from that hole with X360. Is that your personal opinion or what? Last I heard PS3 manufacturing costs were going down significantly and they were moving towards a 65 nm chip.   Besides moving to a 65nm chip, I see nothing to suggest that the 360 will soon break even and make a small profit. As far as Live goes, only about 20% of my friends with 360 (most of them casual gamers) have the Gold membership, the rest all only have Silver for Demos and Trailers. I had a link and I'll try to find it where there was MS, Sony and Nintendo FY earning from 2000 to 2006 or so. Microsof has not made a profit at all, and like I said, nothing suggests that they are digging themselves out of this hole.

It's the trends from their financial reports. MS have been lowering their losses per quarter for some time now. Hardware and software together of course.

The money is in software, and MS has a great (next gen) head start there.

Considering MS's goal has always seemed to be to hurt Sony's profits, their best move next generation would be to work with Nintendo and create software for their next console. They could make a lot of money selling some of these games, especially when not facing hardware losses. Nintendo doesn't seem to have any wishes to enter into any other markets unlike Sony so it wouldn't really hurt MS to help them out (much like what we're seeing with Rare games coming to DS). Of course, that would almost destroy Xbox Live and I think that's one of the major things they're trying to push these days.

mitsuhide said: SEGA is in alot of trouble and someone needs to buy them out if they lose another 438million this year.

That was Sega ( look at fiscal year ). Now there is SegaSammy

@All

Should I do a thread apart with that datas ?

I think there was already one like that but it was awhile ago.