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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How bad has square enix been for sony this gen

kungfusqurrel on 14 December 2008

yea last remnant and infinite discovery was kinda disappointing. kinda.




 

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forevercloud3000 on 14 December 2008
ClaudeLv250 said:
forevercloud3000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"I love it when people try to denounce my claim yet have no real argument. how about you give some concrete reasoning for a MP game selling better then an exclusive one and we will talk."

Liar. You don't "love" it. You just selectively look at sales of certain games while ignoring others, and refuse to look at all factors in the sales.

 

You missed the two main points.

You missed that you have no points. You basically fabricated an argument based on fanboyism around multiplat game sales, listed a bunch of convenient games (half of which are 1st and 2nd party...ROFFLE!) and then vehemently deny that anyone that doesn't agree with you knows what they're talking about. 

Even if you had a point, which you don't, it's not going to change that FF13 is multiplat. Let it go.

WOW, you did the same thing! NO Argument! NO Reasoning! NO Proof!

let me count the ways.....that i could care less what you say. You have issue with my claims, refute them with reasoning and fact, not by just calling me a fanboy when I have acted in no such conduct in this discussion.

 



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

lolita on 14 December 2008

I feel like I've seen this kind of thing happen before... OH YEAH! Same thing happened to Nintendo. Get over it, it's not too bad, you still get the game, at least. It's not like the PS3 version is cancelled. Just that people who own a 360, will have the pleasure to play the game too. Isn't it nice? Now don't be greedy and stop crying over it.



forevercloud3000 on 14 December 2008
FaRmLaNd said:
forevercloud3000 said:
FaRmLaNd said:
If FF13 was exclusive to the ps3 I and millions of other 360 only owners wouldn't get to play. That is why its multi-platform.

 

No, you , and millions of other 360 owners would have bought PS3s, one way or another. Dont pull that crap. If you are a fan of the series you WERE goingto buy a PS3, until the MP thing, no use denying it. Yea its exspensive, but you would have found a way to get it just how you got your 360. It really is not that hard to figure out.

PS2 took up an estimated 80% of the userbase last gen. It was cheaper then Xbox was. FF games of late on average sell about 5million. Do you really think that if it was multiplat then that another 5million people were going to miraculously appear as fans on the XBOX for it. NO. USerbase does not equal sales unless your taget audience is included. If XIII is good its good, it will sell 5mill+, but it would have been just the same if it was on PS3. Maybe 10% less at the most. Is that 10% worth shelling out man power to work on an adjacent title so it can "widen userbase"?

The whole MP equals Sales logic is flawed....

 

 

The ps2 might have had "80%" of the market but the ps3 most certainly does not. Do you honestly think all ps2 owners are upgrading exclusively to the ps3? No, most are upgrading to the wii with some upgrading to the 360 aswell. Most people don't have multiple consoles and since the 360 was out first many had already upraded to it. Couple this with Microsofts push for JRPG on the 360 (which led to LO selling over 800 thousand copies) and it makes perfect sense to port it to the 360 (since surely a final fantasy will sell even more?).

 

The reality is the ps3 isn't dominating the market like the wii is. But since SE has already invested heavily in the ps3 version with its hd graphics etc it is makes a lot of sense to port it to a system that has a larger userbase and similar graphic capabilities. It would have been more costly to develop a wii port at this point. The reality is just releasing something on the ps3 doesn't cover "80%" of the market like releasing something on the ps2 did so if they're going to do high definition graphics then it makes plain business sense to release it on the 360 aswell as it will increase this versions sales buy a few million. Sqare Enix is not a charity and they have acted like a business, as one can expect.

EDIT your argument about people buying a ps3 just for this game makes zero sense. Why would SE care if the ps3 sells because of its game or not? WHY would they increase the barrier of entry by making people BUY a console! Thats just stupid! By making it multi-format they've lowered the barrier for entry. More people with 360's are more likely to buy ff13 on the 360 then purchase a ps3 just for the game. They will get more sales because of it being multi-platform then if it were exclusive because the ps3 is not the ps2 or the wii.

 

No one ever said that the PS3 had PS2 userbase, far from it. What I was saying is that PS3 definitely hss more then the standard FF 5mill+ userbase needed to support this game. Games do not sell exponentially better from the userbase being widened. Only widening the fanbase can do that, and I assure you FF has less fans now from going MP then anything. MGS4 sold like MGS1-3 did, well, but not outside its boundaries. This is because fanbases are loyal, they go where the game goes. 1mill of the MGS4 sales were those who bought the bundle, that is 1million fans of MGS(still within its original fanbase) that actually went out and bought a PS3 forthe game.  FFs fanbase is even more hardcore. You and everyone else would have found a way to have one.

Whether the PS3 is in the lead or not is irrelavent. It is still indeed selling. SE's strong fanbase is for Sony's system, hence the reason they have lost 74% of their profits.

My argument about people buying a PS3 makes perfect since. The claim by you all is that FF will sell better now that it is MP. That is flat out wrong and rediculous. The game is going to sell right on par with how it usually sells, no different. I said that if it were exclusive the game would have still sold about the same amount of copies which I have proven my point in reasoning and research from previous post. This is becuase if people on the 360/PS3 like FF they would have been getting a PS3 anyway.

And yes SE is a business out to make money. Yet I just proved that going MP doesnt bring in any extra money whatsoever. Also making a game MP is obviously more costly then making it exclusive. Exclusives drive creativity and innovation, MPs do not for they are hindered versions of themselves. Also they have severed the well known ties between them and Sony by doing so. Sony is the company that has bailed them out of bankruptcy and has 10% stock in the damn company. The Company they have released there BIGGEST titles on ever. Usually Sony would lay out the tools and SE would work their magic. This was the incentive for being Exclusive. I do not know nor can prove what MS is doing for incentive, but i can tell you it dam sure aint boost of sales for being MP.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

forevercloud3000 on 14 December 2008

When a game sells PS3+360+Wii= games sold, THEN you might have some proof of MP helping with sales.

Until then .....



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

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Garnett on 14 December 2008
forevercloud3000 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
forevercloud3000 said:
FaRmLaNd said:
If FF13 was exclusive to the ps3 I and millions of other 360 only owners wouldn't get to play. That is why its multi-platform.

 

No, you , and millions of other 360 owners would have bought PS3s, one way or another. Dont pull that crap. If you are a fan of the series you WERE goingto buy a PS3, until the MP thing, no use denying it. Yea its exspensive, but you would have found a way to get it just how you got your 360. It really is not that hard to figure out.

PS2 took up an estimated 80% of the userbase last gen. It was cheaper then Xbox was. FF games of late on average sell about 5million. Do you really think that if it was multiplat then that another 5million people were going to miraculously appear as fans on the XBOX for it. NO. USerbase does not equal sales unless your taget audience is included. If XIII is good its good, it will sell 5mill+, but it would have been just the same if it was on PS3. Maybe 10% less at the most. Is that 10% worth shelling out man power to work on an adjacent title so it can "widen userbase"?

The whole MP equals Sales logic is flawed....

 

Man, what delusion. If what you claimed was true, there would be no need to put the game on the 360. The sales would be assured. But S-E doesn't rely on fanboys like you, so they put it on two systems to increase sales.

I love it when people try to denounce my claim yet have no real argument. how about you give some concrete reasoning for a MP game selling better then an exclusive one and we will talk.

Halo 3, an exclusive game for 360 that has out sold majority of MP games this gen(8.6 million). It was only barely out sold by COD4 which is somewhere around 10-11million(PS3+360). That is less then either systems entire userbases seperate.

GTAIV was also around 11million. GTAIII sold 11.6 million while still exclusive to PS2 alone.

DMC4 sold almost 2.5 million. DMC 1 sold 2.77million as a PS2 exclusive.

Ok, Now lets tally up. What are the most successful Games?

Halo3(8mill)

Gran Turismo 3 A Spec (14mill)

Final Fantasy VII10-11mill)

Gears of War (5.5mil)

New Super Mario Bros. (16mill)

Mario Kart Wii(11mil)

Crash Bandicoot 2 (7.5mil)

Jak and Daxter(3.5mil)

Metal Gear Solid (5.6mill)

Pokemon Red/Green/Blue (31mill)

God of War (3.2mil)

Kingdom Hearts (5.5mill)

WOW would you look at that. Majority of the best known and best selling franchise leaders are all exclusive titles. Who would have thunk it?

Now lets got to the Top 5 selling franchises of all time!

  1. Mario
  2. Pokemon
  3. The Sims
  4. Final Fantasy
  5. Need For Speed

3/5 are exclusive franchises to a console or another (except FF of late but they do nto factor into statistics)

What does this Prove?

That making a game Multiplat does not equal better sales.

Now What Have we learned

We learned that you cant compare 50 something million HD consoles to 120 million last gen console sales.



*Remember when the world was supposed to end on May 21st, 2011? Well click here to see our short parody video of it [not]ending*

izaaz101 on 14 December 2008
ctk495 said:
Well let's see:
FFXIII multiplatform.
Star Ocean 4 360 exclusive.
DQX wii exclusive.

I noticed you left out versus, a PS3 exclusive. Is there any reason for that?



forevercloud3000 on 14 December 2008
Garnett said:

we learned that you cant compare 50 something million HD consoles to 120 million last gen console sales.

 

Why is that exactly? Old franchise that sold a certain amount in last gen are selling about the same this gen, unless they completely out do themselves.

This is probably due to we are discussing only the most hardcore of games here.With Hardcored Fanbases that follow like a flock of sheep.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Garnett on 14 December 2008
forevercloud3000 said:
Garnett said:

we learned that you cant compare 50 something million HD consoles to 120 million last gen console sales.

 

Why is that exactly? Old franchise that sold a certain amount in last gen are selling about the same this gen, unless they completely out do themselves.

This is probably due to we are discussing only the most hardcore of games here.With Hardcored Fanbases that follow like a flock of sheep.

I thought you were saying Last Gen games were better than this gens lol :p

 

in terms of sales.

 



*Remember when the world was supposed to end on May 21st, 2011? Well click here to see our short parody video of it [not]ending*

forevercloud3000 on 14 December 2008
Garnett said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Garnett said:

we learned that you cant compare 50 something million HD consoles to 120 million last gen console sales.

 

Why is that exactly? Old franchise that sold a certain amount in last gen are selling about the same this gen, unless they completely out do themselves.

This is probably due to we are discussing only the most hardcore of games here.With Hardcored Fanbases that follow like a flock of sheep.

I thought you were saying Last Gen games were better than this gens lol :p

 

in terms of sales.

 

Well....They do, but that is due to there are simply more games to buy last gen.

I was actually in a heated debate on why Multiplatness has not proven to bring anymore sales for franchise that were once exclusive in the slightest as they still sell relatively the same as their exclusive counterparts. The only difference is that fanbases are spread across multiple systems now

 



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)