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Forums - General Discussion - There! Fourteen billions for big3 autos

source msnbc

$14 billion auto bailout bill clears the House

White house lobbies GOP; Tough Senate battle for loan program remains

MSNBC
House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-Mass., speaks in favor of the proposal prior to a vote. 
updated 9:38 p.m. ET, Wed., Dec. 10, 2008

WASHINGTON - The House pressed toward passage of a $14 billion bailout for the nation’s imperiled auto industry Wednesday night, but the hard-fought deal between Democrats and the Bush White House was in jeopardy amid strong opposition from GOP senators.

Republicans were in full revolt against their party’s lame-duck president over the measure, balking at helping Detroit’s struggling Big Three without hefty concessions from autoworkers and creditors, and furious about an environmental mandate House Democrats insisted on including in the measure.

Democratic leaders still held out hope that the emergency aid could be enacted by week’s end.

The White House, though not formally endorsing an agreement with congressional Democrats, dispatched administration officials to Capitol Hill to make a case for the rescue package. During a contentious, closed-door luncheon with Senate Republicans, White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten got an earful of criticism from the rank-and-file, some of whom have already announced plans to block the measure.

“They got a good dose,” said opponent Tom Coburn, R-Okla., as he emerged from the session.

Even auto state Republicans who have pushed hard for a bailout said the measure needed work. Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., said he wanted to see changes. And Sen. George V. Voinovich, R-Ohio, said the bill didn’t have the necessary Republican votes to pass Congress.

The plan would provide money within days to cash-starved General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, while Ford Motor Co. — which has said it has enough liquidity to stay afloat — would be eligible for federal aid as well.

It would create a government “car czar,” to be named by President George W. Bush to dole out the loans, with the power to force the carmakers into bankruptcy next spring if they didn’t cut quick deals with labor unions, creditors and others to restructure their businesses and become viable.

“To give up on the auto industry now would be to condemn the American economy at one of its most vulnerable periods in our economic history to a degree of further hurt,” said Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass, the Financial Services Committee chairman.

Opposition from Republicans reflected the tricky task of enacting yet another federal rescue in a bailout-weary Congress, with Bush’s influence on the wane.

“People realize that this bill is an incredibly weak bill, (and) is the product of an administration that wants to kick the can down the road and let somebody else deal with it,” said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn.



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After the bad job reports the legislature felt obligated to do something. I can't say I blame them. People piss and moan when Congress does something they don't like (ironically, a recession has turned everyone into a fiscal hawk when they should have been fiscal hawks during the good economic times, but that is a completely different story).

But the people would piss and moan a lot more if the economy sank into a depression because Congress failed to do anything. So essentially, in rough times, people will complain no matter what happens.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Yup another bailout recommended and overseen by none other than Elmer freakin' Fudd. Barney Frank needs to grow a pair and learn to obligate MASSIVE overhaul and not just take the $$$ and run schemes. As for the necessity to fix their problem with the money disbursements--r u kidding me! Fix the crap first and then bail out what is left. File for Chapter 11 and restructure. Hell, merge GM and Chrysler and get rid of the redundant fleet.



source forbes

some dirt on Chrysler.

Long article which pretty much say Cerberus is the parent company which has a very very big pocket and surely doesn't need any chump change from the gov but got billions anyways.

It's easier to spend someone else money, it seems.



Cerberus usually buys dieing companies to liquidate them. I wish we didn't bail out anyone and the economy would just crash, totally. People would be homeless, and then we could start over. This nation got too caught up in Usury and now look where we are. We continue turning up the radio to hide the knock on the engine. I like the conservative Ideas about this, because in general the entire population is fucking dumb with money. With the easy availability of credit for anything and everything it was bound to happen.



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halogamer1989 said:
Yup another bailout recommended and overseen by none other than Elmer freakin' Fudd. Barney Frank needs to grow a pair and learn to obligate MASSIVE overhaul and not just take the $$$ and run schemes. As for the necessity to fix their problem with the money disbursements--r u kidding me! Fix the crap first and then bail out what is left. File for Chapter 11 and restructure. Hell, merge GM and Chrysler and get rid of the redundant fleet.

While I do agree that Chapter 11 would solve more of GM's problems than a loan would, the last thing the economy needs right now is more bad news.  The economic environment has gotten even worse since GM et al first asked for a bailout.

And this plan seems to be much more well-implemented from the start than the $700 billion bailout.  Not to mention it is a fraction of the price.

The economy can't just keep taking every punch that's thrown at it, or we will sink into a depression rather than just a recession.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/meltdown_autos
it's 17 billion dollars. Waste of our money.
The government will have the option of becoming a stockholder in the companies, much as it has with major banks, in effect partially nationalizing the industry.

Government getting their hands on private sector.



Can anyone source me the basis for this line : "and furious about an environmental mandate House Democrats insisted on including in the measure." ? I've read several of the articles about the bail-out on Google news, but none mention tightening MPG requirements or any other environmental requirement.



akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:
Yup another bailout recommended and overseen by none other than Elmer freakin' Fudd. Barney Frank needs to grow a pair and learn to obligate MASSIVE overhaul and not just take the $$$ and run schemes. As for the necessity to fix their problem with the money disbursements--r u kidding me! Fix the crap first and then bail out what is left. File for Chapter 11 and restructure. Hell, merge GM and Chrysler and get rid of the redundant fleet.

While I do agree that Chapter 11 would solve more of GM's problems than a loan would, the last thing the economy needs right now is more bad news.  The economic environment has gotten even worse since GM et al first asked for a bailout.

And this plan seems to be much more well-implemented from the start than the $700 billion bailout.  Not to mention it is a fraction of the price.

The economy can't just keep taking every punch that's thrown at it, or we will sink into a depression rather than just a recession.

 

Although I'm not sure if I support this bailout or not, there is an interesting argument against bankruptcy.

When some of the airlines filed for Chapter 11, people continued to fly with them because it is a one time service that occurs only a short time into the future.

When you buy a new car from a company in Chapter 11, you have to worry about if that company will continue to exist.  That means you have to worry about your warranty, parts, and service for the vehicle.

I heard on the radio about a poll that said about 80% of Americans would not buy a car from a company going through bankruptcy.  I'm not sure how much faith I have in that number though.



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Dogs Rule said:
Can anyone source me the basis for this line : "and furious about an environmental mandate House Democrats insisted on including in the measure." ? I've read several of the articles about the bail-out on Google news, but none mention tightening MPG requirements or any other environmental requirement.

I believe it was that they drop their lawsuits against states who had passed legislation requiring stricter fuel efficiency standards.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson