Um, lets speak toppled. The losses on every PS3 have cost Sony every cent the gaming division made in it's first twelve years.

That's meets my definition of toppled. Even when Nintendo was on the bottom, they always made a profit on every home console made including N64 & GC. PS3 lost Sony lost 12 years of profit. I gave them a TON of money over those twelve years, and the PS3 lost every bit of it, and I'm supposed to think they AREN'T doing bad? REALLY?

"After November 2008 NPD, PS3 sits only 400k ahead of Gamecube launch-aligned. And it looks to be behind after December; Gamecube had a very good third Christmas, and PS3 probably won't."

That also meets my definition of toppled. The Gamecube is the worst selling console in Nintendo's history, most thought they were going to become a third party like Sega before E3 2006. And Sony's follow up to the biggest selling console of all time is going to be outsold by the Gamecube (launch aligned) within 20 days of now? Again, I'm supposed to think they AREN'T doing bad? REALLY?

 I'm not saying Sony can't rebuild, but the Playstation Brand is no longer the Empire. Sony makes quality products, but they are NOT still fast. I wish I could drink the kool aid but the facts are more than obvious.

The core of the problem is that Sony was bullied into a Battle-Royal over the small but dedicated "Hard-Core" gamer market by Microsoft, and the decisions they made enabled Nintendo to capture the mainstream gamer market which was the real "Bread and butter" of the PS2.

another drinker of kool aid, see my above thoughts on that

 Winner winner chicken dinner!

That's a good point, but I was refering to sales rather than what profits they make. How many Dreamcasts were sold in its lifetime? 10 11 million? Do people forget the Dreamcast? To the contrary, the console is loved by those who owned it. The PS3 has nearly 18 million sold in just 2 years. Those figures aren't to laugh at. When compared to the GC, sure it was ONE of Nintendo's worst selling consoles, but it was great and SOLD great, and PS2 just did better. A trend that seems to be repeating this gen, but this time the tables have turned.

When put into perspective, you're right. Comparing it to the PS1 and the PS2 the PS3's future looks bleak. But they are selling a 500 dollar console in a time of economical crisis, to me that's an achievement worth mentioning. When put into comparison to other consoles like the Dreamcast, it doesn't look so bad does it.

Sony's loss wasn't entirely due to the gaming division. Remeber the PS3 is more than a gaming console, so the PS3 as a DVD Blue-Ray player is accounted also. Sony as a whole is facing a crisis, like many other companies. They haven't lost grip, they've just loosened it up.

I would have to see inflation adjusted figures on how much money the Dreamcast lost vs the PS3, I'm pretty sure the PS3 has posted the biggest losses in the video game industry's history. Also, be careful when comparing the PS3 to the Dreamcast. There are some very good comparisons floating around, but i don't think Sony will leave the industry even though the PS3 has probably lost way more than the Dreamcast.

By the way, I never once said the PS3 wasn't loved. I only said it wasn't mass appeal (or the "Everyone" console) and that being in last place doesn't have to mean you lose money, but in this case that is the story.

i think the ps3 can still take first, sony has no need for a new console so they can pull of a 12 year life span if they really "wanted to" the wii will onyl be around for a few more years 3 at MOST

Yeah, right Gearbox, sorry but lifespan isn't dependent on the company or any "plan", it is dependent on userbase and sales

Wii isn't going to be around just for three years, it'll keep selling for easily 6-9 years from now, because it has a large userbase and large demand, PS3 doesn't, in 3 years it'll be headed for the console graveyard

Another thing to consider is who keeps consoles alive, sports fans and casuals. These are the people who care least about graphics and are the last to upgrade their systems.

It's the graphic whores who are first to jump ship when the next generation comes along. The very people who the PS3 has been marketed at.

arrogance from Sony top management did it