So the term "hardcore" lies into the player not in the game?
Impossible, you can put the most badass playing Brain Training and I won't turn hardcore. I think people should stop using this terms.

We didn't heard about it till the arrival of the new Nintendo Platforms. People now glued the term "crap" do casual. So for them casual = crap. And by that way they can call every Nintendo game as crap.

People calling Mario Kart casual?????? WTF?
It was NEVER labeled like that, now it is on the Wii - the most sucessful console - they label it like being casual, and so being it its a "passable" game for "kids". WTF I'm 20 and I play that to death =|

The real problem with defining a game as Hardcore versus Casual lies not in the lack of a definition, but in the lack of information one can get from the label.

Games are not black and white. We need more than a binary definition.

I've begun to add the definitions 'fun' and 'serious' to the mix. Then we have at least 2 dimensions.

We should also add a couple of other levels to the hardcore/casual dimension, and it would do well with a third dimension as well. Then we'd actually have a valuable way of labeling games.

As it stands now, I do not put any value whatsoever to a hardcore/casual label.

casual and hardcore are being used up into the ground now.

i believe the people that made up the casual-hardcore label simply hated that the wii was so popular.

i vote we just go with a game is a fucking game.

To show how meaningless and stupid these terms are, here's a summary of soulsamurai's posts in this thread:

1) casual games are easy to pick up and play, as opposed to hard and unusual games
2) defined by how the game itself is played, not how it is played
3) there is a difference between a gamer and a non-gamer
4) casual games are games that appeal to casuals and are easy, hardcore games appeal to hardcore gamers and are harder/take more effort
5) casual games are easy to pick up and play and attract people who normally wouldn't play video games
6) casual games require no skill to play and easy to master, they take no effort, anyone can play without getting frustrated
7) playing a game for 1000 hours does not make someone hardcore, they must be skilled at multiple game genres and be able and willing to accept new ideas for games
8) hardcore requires time and actual effort, time alone is not a factor

Let's see... we know from #2 that "casual" is an inherent element of games, and has nothing to do with how they are played. #1, #4, #5, and #6 all tell us that these games are easy and don't require skill - I guess we can eliminate titles like Wii Sports and Tetris, because they definitely involve skill. #7 seems to be talking about people and not games, I'm not really sure how being skilled at multiple game genres make a game casual or hardcore. Sounds more like a litmus test for certain population demographics than anything else. From #8 we know that a hardcore game must involve a significant timesink, unless of course the game is casual, in which case requiring a significant timesink doesn't matter. And it's always refreshing to know from #3 that there is a difference between a gamer and a non-gamer. I could have sworn that Pogo was a game - perhaps it is actually a form of work instead? If my boss catches me playing Pogo online, I'm sure he will accept my explanation that this is really a "non-game."

The reason why these threads never go anywhere is because the terms are meaningless. They're buzz words created by the industry to try and ignore the success of games that the core gamer doesn't like. Halo 3 outsold by Wii Play and Pokemon? Oh, that's because Wii Play is casual (i.e. it doesn't count). Grand Theft Auto getting beaten by Mario Kart and Wii Fit? They're casual games, thus they are not "real games" and we can ignore them.

Here's the real definition of casual and hardcore:

- A hardcore game is a game I like to play.
- A casual game is a game I don't like.

Use these definitions and you'll have a much better idea of what's going on.

If a game is casual because little kids play it than you better put games like metal slug, contra, castlevania, gradius, shining force, and any if not all beat-em ups as casuals as those are some of my little sisters favorite games,
frankly I think hardcore and casual are idiotic terms as they basically work as follows
if you use 1 of the 2 terms as an insult the statement is
term 1 is good and is us
term 2 is bad and is them
casual and hardcore can be used interchangeably for the above statement

let's see...

1) casual games are easy to pick up and play, as opposed to hard and unusual games
this would seem to take most wii games in account

2) defined by how the game itself is played, not how it is played
er what?

3) there is a difference between a gamer and a non-gamer
so what?

4) casual games are games that appeal to casuals and are easy, hardcore games appeal to hardcore gamers and are harder/take more effort
that takes out almost all the wii games from your first point. nice one.

5) casual games are easy to pick up and play and attract people who normally wouldn't play video games
same thing as you said in your first point. don't rephrase the same statement and try to make yourself look better with more numbers.

6) casual games require no skill to play and easy to master, they take no effort, anyone can play without getting frustrated
again, automatically takes out most of the wii's games.

7) playing a game for 1000 hours does not make someone hardcore, they must be skilled at multiple game genres and be able and willing to accept new ideas for games.
so a person could play and master wii sports, mario kart wii, smash bros brawl, and be hardcore? thanks for contradicting yourself again :b

8) hardcore requires time and actual effort, time alone is not a factor
again, takes out most of the wii's games.


this is fun :D

So after reading these new posts, I have realized that the definition of a casual gamer is "somebody who likes casual games" and the definition of casual games is "games that appeal to casual gamers." Since these are the ONLY definitions, they are an infinite loop outside of the realm of video games. With these parameters there are NO casual games and NO casual gamers.


@Squilliam, you're right on the money.

Maybe the tag's "casual" and "harcore" relates on the clothing - while playing casual games, user has to wear casual clothing, and while playing harcore games, user has to be naked to get the better experience from the game.

When the manager and sim games count rise, there will also be the "business game" tag where you'll have to play wearng a suit.

Business gaming rules. Nothing beats 4 player Wii Sports tennis when everybody's in matching 3-piece suits.

the only people that do that are M$/Sony fans who don't want to admit that the wii has hardcore games.

its a blatant, dumb excuse