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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Kingdom hearts 2 producer, interested in the xbox 360

Stats87 on 03 December 2008
mrstickball said:

SE can profit from 360 games. The problem is that they're throwing the rough equivilent of Radiata Stories at the X360 rather than the beefier ones. Lets wait to see how Star Ocean: TLH does before making proper judgements.

Now, there are a few reasons that KH3 could be considered a viable option on the Xbox 360. I'm not arguing it as the best, or most obvious one (I'd think that KH going to all 3 systems would be the most advantageous):

  • Development Costs. They're going to be cheaper than making the game for Playstation 3. More expensive than the Wii, but the game would have far more features, and factors in to other points further down.
  • Install Base. Kingdom Hearts is primarily an American-driven franchise. Quite possibly the most American franchise Square has ever had. Fitting that's also the X360's best region, no?
  • Live Intergration. Since KH characters, and settings are based heavily off of Disney movies, it's only fitting that they intergrate "hey, get this movie off of Netflix, or rent it from the marketplace" for extra cash.
  • Downloadable Content. Along with the whole live intergration bit, DLC could be huge for a game like KH3. Guess which system has the most robust DLC system out there?
  • 3rd Party Support. Of the 3 companies, which one has been the best for 3rd parties this generation? Lets face it: Only Microsoft has aggressively pursued 3rd parties. 
  • Spin-Offs. Even if a mainline KH game came to the X360, it'd be very plausible that other systems would get big KH-esque spinoffs in the future. Furthermore, XBLA would be a great place for SE and Disney to lay claim to bigger, better profits. While Square can say that FF:CC MLAK has done well, the fact is a game like Castle Crashers (which has less overall pedigree than a Final Fantasy game on a DLC system) has sold just as well as FF:CC, but in half the time.

Star Ocean is your "proper judgement"? That's hardly a big series as well

Also your points are somewhat flawed.

You bring up Development Costs/Install base in the context of profits, (I assume) but if that were the case then the Wii or even the DS would make more sense then the 360.

Install Base: Again the Wii huge in NA and MUCH bigger in Japan.

Live Integration: You could apply this to the PS3 as well "hey go buy the newest Disney movie off Blu-Ray" or "hey go to the PSN download service and get some Disney Movies"


DLC: The PS3 can do that as well. Yes the 360 has more exclusive DLC with games like Fallout 3, but how does this effect SE?

3rd Party Support: Yes the 360 has had excellent 3rd party support, but I don't why SE really cares. The fact is, Kingdom Hearts will sell like hotcakes no matter where it goes, so if it is all about profits then the Wii is the logical choice, not the 360. (especially 360 exclusive)

Spin Offs: Not exactly sure where you're going with this one. They already have spinoffs headed to the PSP/Cell Phone/DS and we're unlikely to see more spin-offs this generation. The idea that they'll put it on the 360 just so they can make more XBLA games seems like a stretch to me. A better argument would be that they put it on the PS3 then in conjuction release KH1/2 for Download or re-release them as a bundle.

 

The problem with your argument is not so much that its wrong or anything, but each point could be argued for another console. Personally I'd rather see it on 360 or PS3 then the Wii, but the game is so far away from release that I cannot be bother right now to truly care.



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Stats87 on 03 December 2008
Shadowblind said:
Stats87 said:
I don't think SE is dumb enough to put it just on the 360. It would also make them hypocrites...more then they already are anyway.

Past experience dictates that Square couldn't care less about being hypocritical. See: Final Fantasy 7; Final Fantasy 13.

 

I know, hence the "more then they already are"

If they truly meant this "multiplatform maximization" thing, SO:TLH and FFvXIII would also have been declared as Multiplatform already.

 



Stats87 on 03 December 2008

The only other KH spin-off you could possibly do now would be to control Mickey during the period of KH1/2. (where does he go really?)

Or an origins story where you play as the first Keyblade wielder...OOoooo, now I just intrigued myself.



mrstickball on 03 December 2008
Stats87 said:
mrstickball said:

E can profit from 360 games. The problem is that they're throwing the rough equivilent of Radiata Stories at the X360 rather than the beefier ones. Lets wait to see how Star Ocean: TLH does before making proper judgements.

Now, there are a few reasons that KH3 could be considered a viable option on the Xbox 360. I'm not arguing it as the best, or most obvious one (I'd think that KH going to all 3 systems would be the most advantageous):

  • Development Costs. They're going to be cheaper than making the game for Playstation 3. More expensive than the Wii, but the game would have far more features, and factors in to other points further down.
  • Install Base. Kingdom Hearts is primarily an American-driven franchise. Quite possibly the most American franchise Square has ever had. Fitting that's also the X360's best region, no?
  • Live Intergration. Since KH characters, and settings are based heavily off of Disney movies, it's only fitting that they intergrate "hey, get this movie off of Netflix, or rent it from the marketplace" for extra cash.
  • Downloadable Content. Along with the whole live intergration bit, DLC could be huge for a game like KH3. Guess which system has the most robust DLC system out there?
  • 3rd Party Support. Of the 3 companies, which one has been the best for 3rd parties this generation? Lets face it: Only Microsoft has aggressively pursued 3rd parties. 
  • Spin-Offs. Even if a mainline KH game came to the X360, it'd be very plausible that other systems would get big KH-esque spinoffs in the future. Furthermore, XBLA would be a great place for SE and Disney to lay claim to bigger, better profits. While Square can say that FF:CC MLAK has done well, the fact is a game like Castle Crashers (which has less overall pedigree than a Final Fantasy game on a DLC system) has sold just as well as FF:CC, but in half the time.

Star Ocean is your "proper judgement"? That's hardly a big series as well

Then what series is? The Xbox 360 has only had one JRPG sequel it's entire run - Tales of Vesperia, which looks to outsell Abyss in America. Star Ocean may not be the best example, but I think at Star Ocean, we need to draw the line, as fans of the X360 (or detractors) and say 'it can sell JRPGs' or 'it can't'.

Also your points are somewhat flawed.

You bring up Development Costs/Install base in the context of profits, (I assume) but if that were the case then the Wii or even the DS would make more sense then the 360.

Yes, but we're also arguing PS3 here as well - and the X360 is the much better of the 2, by far.

Install Base: Again the Wii huge in NA and MUCH bigger in Japan.

But not the attach ratios.

Live Integration: You could apply this to the PS3 as well "hey go buy the newest Disney movie off Blu-Ray" or "hey go to the PSN download service and get some Disney Movies"

Which service would offer more revenue? The one that has almost as many online, Gold-membership users, or the competition that barely has more systems than that? (MS has 14 million Gold members, FYI)


DLC: The PS3 can do that as well. Yes the 360 has more exclusive DLC with games like Fallout 3, but how does this effect SE?

I'd love to see some DLC packs that have been on the Playstation 3 that have sold anywhere near what the X360 has. As far as downloadable games go, the X360 seems to beat the PS3 by 2:1....Big incentive if your destroying the competition, no?

3rd Party Support: Yes the 360 has had excellent 3rd party support, but I don't why SE really cares. The fact is, Kingdom Hearts will sell like hotcakes no matter where it goes, so if it is all about profits then the Wii is the logical choice, not the 360. (especially 360 exclusive)

The Wii would be a logical choice, but it seems that most logic has gone out the window, at some point, or another. It still has the worst 3rd party support of any system, and has had very few core, full-price titles have massive success on the system.

The problem with your argument is not so much that its wrong or anything, but each point could be argued for another console. Personally I'd rather see it on 360 or PS3 then the Wii, but the game is so far away from release that I cannot be bother right now to truly care.

I wasn't arguing that my argument is inherantly right, but possible. From an executive's point of view, the hard data has been in favor of the X360 - it moves more software per console than the Wii, MS has a much better online system than the PS3, and also has the gusto to make things happen in backroom deals, or whatever Microsoft has done to garner so much 3rd party support.

 



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Neoraf on 04 December 2008

mrstickball, very good answers.

I am Neoraf... and I approve your message.



     

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Shadowblind on 04 December 2008

Attach rate alone makes publishing on the 360 a rather appealing factor, as Stickball said. User base really doesn't mean jack for devs and publishers if nobody is gonna buy the game on the console.



GOTY Contestants this year: Dead Space 2, Dark Souls, Tales of Graces f. Everything else can suck it.

Stats87 on 04 December 2008
Soriku said:
Stats87 said:
The only other KH spin-off you could possibly do now would be to control Mickey during the period of KH1/2. (where does he go really?)

Or an origins story where you play as the first Keyblade wielder...OOoooo, now I just intrigued myself.

 

Where does Mickey go in KH1/2 - 358/2 Days will explain that. :P

Origins story - This would be cool, but this is something like BBS. Not sure they want to make an origin of an origin lol.

BBS is an origins story for sure, but it's only 10 years before the first KH game I believe. So it's more of an origins to the events of KH1/2

I'm talking more of a full blow hundreds of years before the events in KH 1 and 2. Why/when/how the first Keyblade was made and who wielded it...only to find out that it is the Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great..... Great Great Great Great Great Grandfather of Sora, named...Aros. 

I kind of have a feeling that Sora won't be the main character of KH3, but instead will just be a side character in the game. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

 

 

 



Stats87 on 04 December 2008

Also,

I'm surprised, or maybe I've missed it, that somebody hasn't said something along the lines of

"oh yeah, well the director of KH 1 and 2 has mad-love for the PS3 and/or Sony"



Stats87 on 04 December 2008
Soriku said:
Stats87 said:

BBS is an origins story for sure, but it's only 10 years before the first KH game I believe. So it's more of an origins to the events of KH1/2

I'm talking more of a full blow hundreds of years before the events in KH 1 and 2. Why/when/how the first Keyblade was made and who wielded it...only to find out that it is the Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great..... Great Great Great Great Great Grandfather of Sora, named...Aros. 

I kind of have a feeling that Sora won't be the main character of KH3, but instead will just be a side character in the game. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

 

I want that :P lol Aros. Not sure if they'd make it though. But Nomura hasn't said anything about new KH spin offs...so it's unlikely, until KH4 or something D:

Nomura said KH was Sora's story so Sora would still be the main character.

I did not know that...nvm then haha.

I wonder if Haley Joel Osment's voice will still fit for the character this next time around. The guy is 20 going on 21 and I doubt Sora will be any older then 17 or 18 in the next game. Also considering that KH3 will likely hit end of 2010/likely 2011 at the earliest, he will be 23 by then. IGN actually commented that his voice doesn't fit well in Re:Chain of Memories because Sora is still 14/15 and his voice is deeper then it was in KH2.



Shadowblind on 04 December 2008
Soriku said:
@mrstickball

1. ToV isn't a sequel to anything. It's a new original Tales IP.

2. Well duh the 360 is better than the PS3 development wise. But still doesn't trump the Wii in terms of easiness and less cost.

3. Attach ratios don't mean crap. You could have a console with 100 units sold and every game released sells 1 copy to each unit and the console would have 100% ratio. Does that make it better than the console that has 30 mil units sold and a game sold 3 mil but only sold to 10% of the ratio? No. Raw numbers is what counts. Raw numbers and development, marketing, etc. tied in. That goes with #2.

4. Not like KH games have had DLC anyway, so what's the point of bringing it up? Many HD RPGs don't have DLC...why should this suddenly become a plus? Chances are if they make KH3 for the 360 they'd include everything in the disc without need for DLC.

5. None of the Wii's core games are even big. ToS: DotNW is much smaller than ToV when comparing, yet it already outsold it. NMH sold 300k but is Suda's best selling title. Games on the GC, PS2, GBA, etc. from him? Didn't get near that. So really, many core games have sold fine. The bigger core games like SSBB or Zelda or whatever have sold in the millions. Sure, they're Nintendo titles, but so what? They're big games...just like KH.

6. Only in NA. In Japan and EU where more than half sales come from, the Wii is kicking the 360's ass without any big third party titles.

 

 1. Yeah it is, actually. Its called a spiritual sequel, like Bioshock and System Shock.

2. The desire to make an HD game vs. a, erm, not HD game is up to what level the publisher wants the game to be at in terms of all around production values. This is something Sqeenix can go either way in, though for major sequels like this they have often went the way of adding as much as they can, and to make it have impressive production values. See: Final Fantasy Series, Star Ocean series, and in the past thus far, Kingdom Hearts Series.

3. Yes, they really do. Especially considering the two user bases. 8 vs....4 I believe? And ATM, 24.5mil vs. 39 mil. Its not far off, but it is greater in favor for 360.

4. Vesperia has DLC, and a ton of it at that. Fable II, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, they all got it. I don't know about the other JRPGs on 360 though. But I do know theres a massive amount of TLR and IU DLC out there, but not sure about in game stuff for those.

5. I have nothing to say about this. Vesperia's failure against Symphonia spin-off is just disheartening for the 360.

6.  In console sales yes; how about software? And thats an actual question too.

 

Again, I do think its going to Wii. But there is logic against it as well.



GOTY Contestants this year: Dead Space 2, Dark Souls, Tales of Graces f. Everything else can suck it.