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Forums - PC Discussion - VALVe and DRM

Soleron said:
vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.

 

Not really, I can download steam on any computer and boot my games, it also doesn't fuck with my computer.

You can't copy games; you can't cheat on one of them without Valve deleting all of your purchases; you can't install it on more than one computer at a time; you can't run it without their process spying on you; it collects your data without your consent; you can't run games from a different region; you can't run games at all if your computer doesn't meet Valve's minimum computer requirements; you can't resell your games freely.

 

You can backup your Steam games on CD/DVDs.

You can cheat on games, unless it's on multiplayer and affects other users.

You can install Steam games on as much PCs as you wish, all at the same time. There is no limit.

Steam is NOT spyware, and you can run it offline.

Steam does NOT collect data without users' consent. They ask you if you wish to participate on a survey that collects your data.

You can run games from a different region. You just can't buy them if the games' publishers don't want them to be available in a certain region.

Steam has a really small requirements, and pretty any PC with Windows XP/Vista can run it.

Reselling games is against the EULA, so you're on the wrong here.

 

Result: Steam wins. You Fail.



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Soleron said:
vlad321 said:
...

Why would you want to copy games other than for backups, which you don't need? Why would you cheat in a VAC secured server, do it in single-player or in non VAC servers? You consent to the data gathered when you accept the ToS, if you read it. If you can't meet Valve's min requirements then you REALLY can't run the games they make, they are extremely lax as they are. Again, the point is for you not to copy and resell games, reselling is equivalent of pirating except that it's legal. I haven't heard of out of region playing to be honest so I don't know how big of a problem that is.

 

Some of which are valid points. But DRM is anything that restricts freedom to use the purchase within the law, no matter how well-intentioned it is or how much you personally can't see the problem. It's still a contradictory position to criticise EA and DRM in general while having a platform that relies on it.

Now, as to what level of DRM is "acceptable", we can debate forever. I can see why Steam isn't a problem to most people, including you or me; that doesn't stop me from being against it in principle.

 

Steam's DRM is not intrusive like SecuROM. This is Gabe's entire thing. He is attacking SecuROM and SecuROM like DRM.

And what is this about that you couldnt install Portal on your GF's computer? I have Steam installed on 3 different computers at my house. As long as you arent logged in to Steam on one of the other computers your free to use your account where ever you want to. Download and install the games where ever you want to. For single player games as long as you have the main files backed up you can use offline mode. Steam is not the DRM anyone should have real issues with as its just there to protect the body of the games installed using it unlike SecuROM which embeds itself into you OS kernal making it so that its nearly impossible to get rid of unless the publisher releases an uninstaller for the game's SecuROM files, go through 20 steps of removal that if you screw up one step you will be reformatting your PC, or you just plain reformat the OS to get rid of it.

 

here is one of the comments at GamePolitics about this.

yeah steam IS a form of drm... but i find the BENEFITS i get from steam FAR outweigh any negatives. Thats the point. What benefit do consumers get from securom? None...

 

What benefits do i get from steam?

With steam, i can buy a new computer, install steam and *wham* like 15 games i own are all Downloaded for me without having to go through each box installing them pulling out CD keys, and changing discs for several hours.

I can quickly and easily see if my friends are playing a game, and, from windows, click join game, and stick back and let steam do the work.

I can play ALL my games offline. ( I havent experienced any of the problems with offline play mentioned in other posts, and ive been using steam for several years on several systems).

I get instant patches updating my game when they are released. No waiting around n downloading and manually applying patches.

 

What negatives do i get from steam?

I have to be online ONCE for a split second to 'activate' the game. Thats pretty much it....

 



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shio said:
Soleron said:
vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.

 

Not really, I can download steam on any computer and boot my games, it also doesn't fuck with my computer.

You can't copy games; you can't cheat on one of them without Valve deleting all of your purchases; you can't install it on more than one computer at a time; you can't run it without their process spying on you; it collects your data without your consent; you can't run games from a different region; you can't run games at all if your computer doesn't meet Valve's minimum computer requirements; you can't resell your games freely.

 

You can backup your Steam games on CD/DVDs.

You can cheat on games, unless it's on multiplayer and affects other users.

You can install Steam games on as much PCs as you wish, all at the same time. There is no limit.

Steam is NOT spyware, and you can run it offline.

Steam does NOT collect data without users' consent. They ask you if you wish to participate on a survey that collects your data.

You can run games from a different region. You just can't buy them if the games' publishers don't want them to be available in a certain region.

Steam has a really small requirements, and pretty any PC with Windows XP/Vista can run it.

Reselling games is against the EULA, so you're on the wrong here.

 

Result: Steam wins. You Fail.

 

This, Steam(Valve) is not perfect, but is a lot better than the alternatives...



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Guys...Steam isn't perfect, but it is a very good thing for the industry.



On the issue of Steam VS DRM, I think those who are trying to compare steam to DRM completely failed to grasp what Gabe is saying.

His point isn't that companies should stop trying to control their rights to the media, he is saying that doing that and nothing else decreases the value of the software. By offering steam he recognizes that it does have some limitations (albeit far more reasonable than most DRM).

The point you missed is that it also has benefits as well. The community, friends, and groups enabling you to organize people into tournaments and large games. The ability to backup without hassle, the option to automatically defrag your games, saving game settings/keyboard settings between computers, access to your games on any computer, you can't lose your games, they can't be stolen, they can't be destroyed, patches and updates roll out automatically, reminders to update your drivers when needed, etc...etc...etc....

The entire point he made was that you have to give something back if you're going to take something away. If you just take take take, you're going to piss people off.  By telling customers "Hey where going to give you a minor hassle..." you also need to be prepared to follow that up with "and for that inconveniance we're going to give you ____!".  It's customer service 101.



To Each Man, Responsibility
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In general, I think Steam is pretty good for what it does - and is virtually better than physical, retail purchases.

Its not perfect though - if their servers went down, or there was a significant internet problem - most people would be stuffed. Then again, most computers would be stuffed (and most people would be stranded). There might also be some cases where people get banned for no good reason, or by accident...

Eventually, web access will be up there with telephone/mobile access - if not electricity/water.



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shams said:
In general, I think Steam is pretty good for what it does - and is virtually better than physical, retail purchases.

Its not perfect though - if their servers went down, or there was a significant internet problem - most people would be stuffed. Then again, most computers would be stuffed (and most people would be stranded). There might also be some cases where people get banned for no good reason, or by accident...

Eventually, web access will be up there with telephone/mobile access - if not electricity/water.

 

They actually did a south park episode on that this season =P

The internet goes down and the world basically collapses in on itself until kyle unplugs "the router" and plugs it back in =P

Link - Select the 6th Episode~ << Not Safe For Work - Duh!



To Each Man, Responsibility

By definition, Steam is digital rights management. So is software keys. Many of us have accepted DRM as commonplace and tend to ignore it's presence, but being a tech guy it annoys me on a day to day basis.

As for steam not being a problem, I disagree. My understanding is that Half Life 2 is 64-bit capable, so I tried installing it and running it on my Windows XP Professional 64-bit OS. The game would not work. I eventually had to conclude that steam was not 64-bit and was preventing me from playing Half Life 2. I looked into it recently and found out that there is a 64-bit steam now that is supposed to automatically install, but it didn't then.