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Forums - General Discussion - Four Philosophical Questions to make your Brain Hurt.

Source: BBC

 

1. SHOULD WE KILL HEALTHY PEOPLE FOR THEIR ORGANS?

Suppose Bill is a healthy man without family or loved ones. Would it be ok painlessly to kill him if his organs would save five people, one of whom needs a heart, another a kidney, and so on? If not, why not?

Consider another case: you and six others are kidnapped, and the kidnapper somehow persuades you that if you shoot dead one of the other hostages, he will set the remaining five free, whereas if you do not, he will shoot all six. (Either way, he'll release you.)

If in this case you should kill one to save five, why not in the previous, organs case? If in this case too you have qualms, consider yet another: you're in the cab of a runaway tram and see five people tied to the track ahead. You have the option of sending the tram on to the track forking off to the left, on which only one person is tied. Surely you should send the tram left, killing one to save five.

But then why not kill Bill?

2. ARE YOU THE SAME PERSON WHO STARTED READING THIS ARTICLE?

Consider a photo of someone you think is you eight years ago. What makes that person you? You might say he she was composed of the same cells as you now. But most of your cells are replaced every seven years. You might instead say you're an organism, a particular human being, and that organisms can survive cell replacement - this oak being the same tree as the sapling I planted last year.

But are you really an entire human being? If surgeons swapped George Bush's brain for yours, surely the Bush look-alike, recovering from the operation in the White House, would be you. Hence it is tempting to say that you are a human brain, not a human being.

But why the brain and not the spleen? Presumably because the brain supports your mental states, eg your hopes, fears, beliefs, values, and memories. But then it looks like it's actually those mental states that count, not the brain supporting them. So the view is that even if the surgeons didn't implant your brain in Bush's skull, but merely scanned it, wiped it, and then imprinted its states on to Bush's pre-wiped brain, the Bush look-alike recovering in the White House would again be you.

But the view faces a problem: what if surgeons imprinted your mental states on two pre-wiped brains: George Bush's and Gordon Brown's? Would you be in the White House or in Downing Street? There's nothing on which to base a sensible choice. Yet one person cannot be in two places at once.

In the end, then, no attempt to make sense of your continued existence over time works. You are not the person who started reading this article.

3. IS THAT REALLY A COMPUTER SCREEN IN FRONT OF YOU?

What reason do you have to believe there's a computer screen in front of you? Presumably that you see it, or seem to. But our senses occasionally mislead us. A straight stick half-submerged in water sometimes look bent; two equally long lines sometimes look different lengths.  
Are things always as they seem? The Muller-Lyer illusion indicates not


But this, you might reply, doesn't show that the senses cannot provide good reasons for beliefs about the world. By analogy, even an imperfect barometer can give you good reason to believe it's about to rain.

Before relying on the barometer, after all, you might independently check it by going outside to see whether it tends to rain when the barometer indicates that it will. You establish that the barometer is right 99% of the time. After that, surely, its readings can be good reasons to believe it will rain.

Perhaps so, but the analogy fails. For you cannot independently check your senses. You cannot jump outside of the experiences they provide to check they're generally reliable. So your senses give you no reason at all to believe that there is a computer screen in front of you."

4. DID YOU REALLY CHOOSE TO READ THIS ARTICLE?

Suppose that Fred existed shortly after the Big Bang. He had unlimited intelligence and memory, and knew all the scientific laws governing the universe and all the properties of every particle that then existed. Thus equipped, billions of years ago, he could have worked out that, eventually, planet Earth would come to exist, that you would too, and that right now you would be reading this article.

After all, even back then he could have worked out all the facts about the location and state of every particle that now exists.

And once those facts are fixed, so is the fact that you are now reading this article. No one's denying you chose to read this. But your choice had causes (certain events in your brain, for example), which in turn had causes, and so on right back to the Big Bang. So your reading this was predictable by Fred long before you existed. Once you came along, it was already far too late for you to do anything about it.

Now, of course, Fred didn't really exist, so he didn't really predict your every move. But the point is: he could have. You might object that modern physics tells us that there is a certain amount of fundamental randomness in the universe, and that this would have upset Fred's predictions. But is this reassuring? Notice that, in ordinary life, it is precisely when people act unpredictably that we sometimes question whether they have acted freely and responsibly. So freewill begins to look incompatible both with causal determination and with randomness. None of us, then, ever do anything freely and responsibly."



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SamuelRSmith said:

Source: BBC

 

1. SHOULD WE KILL HEALTHY PEOPLE FOR THEIR ORGANS?

Suppose Bill is a healthy man without family or loved ones. Would it be ok painlessly to kill him if his organs would save five people, one of whom needs a heart, another a kidney, and so on? If not, why not?

Consider another case: you and six others are kidnapped, and the kidnapper somehow persuades you that if you shoot dead one of the other hostages, he will set the remaining five free, whereas if you do not, he will shoot all six. (Either way, he'll release you.)

In this situation I think it best to try to shoot the kidnapper :)

If in this case you should kill one to save five, why not in the previous, organs case? If in this case too you have qualms, consider yet another: you're in the cab of a runaway tram and see five people tied to the track ahead. You have the option of sending the tram on to the track forking off to the left, on which only one person is tied. Surely you should send the tram left, killing one to save five.

Hmmm... I think just hope for the best...  that's the best I can come up with.

But then why not kill Bill?



2. ARE YOU THE SAME PERSON WHO STARTED READING THIS ARTICLE?


In the end, then, no attempt to make sense of your continued existence over time works. You are not the person who started reading this article.

I think that  depends on what is meant exactly by "person". If one decides that a person's cells make them that person, then realizes that  cells are completely different at some point in time may think to himself "Well that can't be the right definition.  He's still the same person" means by "person" something else than just cells, so he didn't really define person strictly to mean that.  If one did, then no, one is not the same person.


3. IS THAT REALLY A COMPUTER SCREEN IN FRONT OF YOU?


Perhaps so, but the analogy fails. For you cannot independently check your senses. You cannot jump outside of the experiences they provide to check they're generally reliable. So your senses give you no reason at all to believe that there is a computer screen in front of you."

Agreed.  Senses are useless by themselves.


4. DID YOU REALLY CHOOSE TO READ THIS ARTICLE?

Suppose that Fred existed shortly after the Big Bang. He had unlimited intelligence and memory, and knew all the scientific laws governing the universe and all the properties of every particle that then existed. Thus equipped, billions of years ago, he could have worked out that, eventually, planet Earth would come to exist, that you would too, and that right now you would be reading this article.


After all, even back then he could have worked out all the facts about the location and state of every particle that now exists.

And once those facts are fixed, so is the fact that you are now reading this article. No one's denying you chose to read this. But your choice had causes (certain events in your brain, for example), which in turn had causes, and so on right back to the Big Bang. So your reading this was predictable by Fred long before you existed. Once you came along, it was already far too late for you to do anything about it.

Now, of course, Fred didn't really exist, so he didn't really predict your every move. But the point is: he could have. You might object that modern physics tells us that there is a certain amount of fundamental randomness in the universe, and that this would have upset Fred's predictions. But is this reassuring? Notice that, in ordinary life, it is precisely when people act unpredictably that we sometimes question whether they have acted freely and responsibly. So freewill begins to look incompatible both with causal determination and with randomness. None of us, then, ever do anything freely and responsibly."

Agreed.  If all there is is the physical realm, free will is impossible.

While this may have been more humourous, I'll answer them as best I can anyway :)

 



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz

It's too confusing.... I'll just have to go back to doing my lovely history essay instead



^What are you studying in history? My college scared me off with American history, but they changed the course to the Russian revolution!

Man, I was pissed. But I didn't want to change my subjects anymore.



Ill answer 1 first
The organ scenario is not as pressing as the other two.
In the later scenarios, im making a decision under duress, whereas in the first case, what ill be doing will be pretty calculated and thus, taking a human life to save 5 others wont be an option



"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murders will foam up about their waist and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

 ....and I'll look down and whisper  "no."  

                                                                   - Rorschach

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SamuelRSmith said:
^What are you studying in history? My college scared me off with American history, but they changed the course to the Russian revolution!

Man, I was pissed. But I didn't want to change my subjects anymore.

American history.... origins of the civil war, which I think is actually quite interesting. I am also studying British political history around the time of Pitt and Peel, what really annoys me is that we have skirted around the Napoleonic Wars, which I would really like to study



I'll answer yes to all of them, with certain view points on question 1.

a: It depends who you kill.
b: It depends who benefits.

For example, you would kill a 50 politicians to save a kid, but you wouldn't kill a beetle to save 50 politicians.



Mistershine said:
I'll answer yes to all of them, with certain view points on question 1.

a: It depends who you kill.
b: It depends who benefits.

For example, you would kill a 50 politicians to save a kid, but you wouldn't kill a beetle to save 50 politicians.

 

 What if those 50 politicians recognised Cornwall being a seperate state from England?



Munkeh111 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
^What are you studying in history? My college scared me off with American history, but they changed the course to the Russian revolution!

Man, I was pissed. But I didn't want to change my subjects anymore.

American history.... origins of the civil war, which I think is actually quite interesting. I am also studying British political history around the time of Pitt and Peel, what really annoys me is that we have skirted around the Napoleonic Wars, which I would really like to study

Wait they actually tell you the origins of the Civil War?

In the US they basically shout slavery and then spend 3 weeks about how awesome Abe Lincoln was... and how brilliant grant was for coming up with the strategy "We have more men... so lets wear them out."

Vs the other two generals plans of.... "Lets train a bunch of troops.  But not deploy them."



Kasz216 said:
Munkeh111 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
^What are you studying in history? My college scared me off with American history, but they changed the course to the Russian revolution!

Man, I was pissed. But I didn't want to change my subjects anymore.

American history.... origins of the civil war, which I think is actually quite interesting. I am also studying British political history around the time of Pitt and Peel, what really annoys me is that we have skirted around the Napoleonic Wars, which I would really like to study

Wait they actually tell you the origins of the Civil War?

In the US they basically shout slavery and then spend 3 weeks about how awesome Abe Lincoln was... and how brilliant grant was for coming up with the strategy "We have more men... so lets wear them out."

Vs the other two generals plans of.... "Lets train a bunch of troops.  But not deploy them."

 

 Well, we wouldn't have any bias, as we weren't directly involved.

But, man, you should hear our version of the British-American war.