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Forums - Sony - why most ps3 games are 720 instead of 1080p?????????????

Dno on 12 November 2008
BengaBenga said:
Dno said:
BengaBenga said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
Dno said:
Squilliam said:
HappySqurriel said:

It comes down to GPU performance ...

In order to maintain the per-pixel image quality of a PS2 game that ran at 480i @30fps and display it at 1080p @60fps you would need (in the range of) 10 times the processing power. At the same time, the pixel shaders that produces the material effects that people associate with PS3/XBox 360 games also require a massive ammount of processing power, and it would take somewhere around 10 times the processing power of the PS2 to match these effects at a resolution of 480i @30fps.

The PS3 is a powerful system but it falls far short of being able to enhance the per-pixel image quality to the level people associate with "HD" games while at the same time increasing the resolution to 1080p and maintaining a decent framerate.

 

One word you forgot to mention is "Bandwidth"

You'd need a lot of it to run a game like Killzone 2 @ 1080p. Well a lot more than is currently available. Ditto could be said for AA, which is one of the reasons why the PS3 uses the texture bluring Quincunx AA (Kinda helps to defeat the purpose of higher resolution/uncompressed texturs when you blur them) whilst the 360 tends to use MSAA which is the preferred method for high image quality, but requires a lot more bandwidth.

 

i understand you have to use tips and tricks to make it 1080p but to say system A can not do it when its done it MORE then the others is foolish. thats all im trying to say.

 

Not really, If the PS3 could potentially run KZ2 at 1080p with a steady 30FPS I would slap Sony and Guerilla games in that order for incompetence. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you'll like the tradeoffs for doing it.

 

Same can be said for 360.

i never said u can run everygame at 1080p i said that both systems can RUN in 1080p and ps3 has run it in more games. thats what im trying to say.

 

That was not the topic, though. The OP asked why so few PS3 games are 1080p. That's a perception thing. No-one is complaining about 360 games not being 1080p, because Microsoft didn't promise that.

A lot of people that bought a PS3 genuinly believed they would see most games in 1080p, because Sony more or less promised that. No-one is arguing that PS3 doesn't have more games that run in 1080 than 360. 

ok so ps3 has THE MOST 1080p games on the market and thats a bad thing?

Then lemme ask some questions:

Why isnt gears 60 players online?

Why isnt halo 1080p?

Why is GT5 1080p and not forza?

Why is little big planet 720p?

Here is the answer

Because some devs had a choice to spend time on gameplay or 1080p or online features. They CHOOSE to make the games that way and in MOST cases (not all) it has nuthin to do with the system they created it on.

So in short (to answer the op) the devs are lazy and the ps3 is hard to make games for so they made a choice not to make it in 1080p. its not that the ps3 (or 360) can not handle it because there are games that prove that they can.

 

You're really becoming annoying now. Stop playing the misunderstood fanboy. NO-ONE said having more 1080p games is a bad thing. It also has nothing to do with lazy devs, since MGS4 is not 1080p, and that's hardly a lazy effort. PS3 can't handle it, which is fine, but Sony oversold its capacities.

The games that are 1080p use less of the hardware for other things.

 

Well im not gonna speak my point again as i said what i had to say lets wait for White knight story. i disagree the ps3 and 360 can handle it and if it could not then there would be ZERO games that use it. and we know thats not the case.

 

I never said all games can use it we are not devs we dont no. But most that dont use it now is not because the ps3 cant.

Ive never claimed anything fanboyish in this thread. i am stating my opinion. you said the ps3 cant handle it i gave you a list of games that did. Then you call me annoying because i disagree with you. Fact is you have no facts. your guessing. Thats annoying.

 



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Dno on 12 November 2008
bdbdbd said:

Dno said:
 

ok so ps3 has THE MOST 1080p games on the market and thats a bad thing?

Then lemme ask some questions:

Why isnt gears 60 players online?

Why isnt halo 1080p?

Why is GT5 1080p and not forza?

Why is little big planet 720p?

Here is the answer

Because some devs had a choice to spend time on gameplay or 1080p or online features. They CHOOSE to make the games that way and in MOST cases (not all) it has nuthin to do with the system they created it on.

So in short (to answer the op) the devs are lazy and the ps3 is hard to make games for so they made a choice not to make it in 1080p. its not that the ps3 (or 360) can not handle it because there are games that prove that they can.

 

The issue is choose, as you said it yourself. PS3 can't run everything the devs would want it to, so they are forced to do tradeoffs between resolution/polycount/effects/framerate etc. So, in order to get the best detail out of it, the devs take the route of lower resotion, since it's the least noticeable tradeoff. CoD4 runs on 600p, GTA4 620p etc. Even one of Sonys own flagships, GT5, isn't running on standard 1080p, since i'd recall it has resolution of 1280x1080.

And the reason why people see this as a problem, is because Sony promised "full HD" for people, which of course would be possible, but then it would lose graphically to 720p games on 360 (and M$ never promised more than 720p resolution).

well this is what im talking about. i never said it can run EVRYTHING. im arguing the fact that people said it can't do it at all. and it has in its 1st year.

 



GhaleonUnlimited on 12 November 2008

The reason it sucks is that early adopters have badass CRT HDTVs, which Playstation does not support (no 1080i unless the game supports 1080p or the dev specifically includes it, which is BARELY any). 360 is not a problem.

I bought a Playstation because it will be the system to run fighting games on because of MS's Draconian controller technology (can't use PSX sticks on it w/o a $100 adapter) and playing the FEW games I've bought in 480p is such bullshit.

Sony overpromised with the Playstation 2 too -- I knew Sony BS was coming all along regarding the system's power. Most games have trouble with 30 fps at 720p, let alone what the games SHOULD be: 60 fps, let alone 1080p.



reptile168 on 12 November 2008

PS3 doesn't have built-in upconverter to make it 1080p. No games are develop with the native 1080p resolution. They are all created with lower resolution and then upconverted to 1080p. On the 360, it has a very good 1080p converter built-in so it's as close to 1080p this generation. On the PS3, it's relying on the HDTV to convert to 1080p which isn't the best solution because it screws up resolutions on games and you had to change settings in the ps3 crossbar. Is PS3 the full hd console as Sony hyped all the way back in e3 2005?



Dno on 12 November 2008
Groucho said:

Neither the PS3 or 360 are really capable of running complex games at 1080p. You see some PSN titles at 1080p, or some more advanced titles which fit nicely into the "easy to render" bucket running at 1080p (space games, some racing games, etc.). Otherwise it'll be the next gen before we see GPUs capable of rendering 1920x1080 at decent framerates.

You don't even see many high-end PC graphics cards rendering at 30 fps at that resolution for complicated games, let alone 60fps. The fact that some games, like WipEout HD, run at 60 fps, and at 1080p, at all is downright phenominal, given the ages of the PS3 and 360s GPUs.

 

Sony advertized that the PS3 was capable of running games at 1080p at launch, which was, and is, true.  The 360, at launch, didn't support HDMI, and thus could not support 1080p gaming in any regard.  Sony never claimed that "all" or "lots" of games would run at 1080p... just that it was possible.  And frankly, the PS3 has more 1080p games than I would expect -- it certainly has a lot more than the 360 does.

Thanks so much.

 



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Shinlock on 12 November 2008

When it comes to max resolutions you need to look at 4 things

Pixel Fill rate
Texel Fill rate (not always 1:1 with Pixel fill rate)
Memory Bandwidth (both speed and bus width, which is 128bit with RSX)
GPU power

with the RSX, the core problem is really with 3 of those. with 4GPixel/sec fillrate, 12Gtexel/sec texture fillrate and Memorybandwidth of 22GB/sec, there simply isn't enough there to run games at 1080p without making serious concessions with what you want todo.

Developers have the following options

- Drop from 60hz to 30 hz
- Drop game's HD resolution to 720p (1024x720) from 1080p (1920x1080)
- Both of above

To get the detail people want in today's games, most developers end up doing both.

----

RSX is based on the 7800 Architecture with the Xbox's Gpu based on the X1950 Architecture (just with the pixel pipeline and vertex pipelines unified), they both belong to the same generation on PC. While the PC versions of these cards are more powerful then what ended up in these consoles, gaming at 1920x1080/1920x1200 was really the domain of SLI/Crossfire users on PC (using 2 cards together instead of 1) if you wanted the high detail + AA + performance. Games today on console are more detailed then when these gpus ruled the PC land so its _really_ not supprising that 1080p is Rarely used on PS3.



 

Diomedes1976 on 12 November 2008

Well its a question of balance.If you display at 1080p you need way more processing power to do the business...some developers just stick with 720p(or even 680p) to keep a better balance between frame rate and effects and resolution.

On the other hand ,it has been very expensive and hard to develop tools for making HD content at 720p ...imagine with 1080p they just have to rework their graphics libraries etc.Not a very big deal but given the deadlines its better to go with 720p.

There are quite a number of 1080p games on the PS3 in any case.Just by memory I can cite Lair ,Ridge Racer 7 ,Virtua Tennis 3 ,Marvel Ultimate Alliance ,Wipeout HD and Gran Turismo 5 Prologue...plus some stuff of the store as Flow ,Super Stardust HD and the likes.Incoming we have White Knight Story ,Killzone 2 and I have some doubts with Resistance 2 wich I have seen some mags saying it was 1080p.

Other thing is the upscaling thing.At first PS3 games didnt upscale at all.Later it was revealed a scaler chip on the machine that combined with some software solutions started to make some games upscale to 1080i and 1080p.Thats what the 360 does when it puts 1080p in its game boxes ...they are really 720p native but upscaled to 1080p.Sony usually gives you the upscaling to 1080i and leaves the upscaling to 1080p to the TV as all the Full HD panels do that anyway.Its bad for PR and message board trolling ,but the more efficient solution.



Johann on 12 November 2008

Because the HD fairy decided that way.
You are not about to question the HD fairy, are you?



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Dadinho é o caralho! Meu nome agora é Zé Pequeno!

4lc0h0l on 12 November 2008

because 1080p native is too demanding for the ps3 and any console of this generation, maybe the next gen will have 1080p as a standar but not this one



Press_the_Button on 12 November 2008

Games running at 60fps in 1080p will be for the next Gen of consoles, this gen can't manage it.



I am largely platform agnostic. I fail to understand why some people get overly fanboyish about what is an inanimate piece of electronics that's obsolete even before it's launched, when there are far more important things to champion, such as preventing environmental destruction or preventing millions of people dying unnecessarily from illnesses. This fact however, doesn’t mean I am not someone who doesn’t enjoy gaming as a pastime (as I have done for the last 20 years) or doesn’t have a strong interest in how the market is evolving – hence my presence on this site.

Platforms owned – PC, DS, X-Box 360, PS3, PSP and Wii.