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Forums - Gaming Discussion - First AAA JRPG of this generation?

shio said:
The JRPG sub-genre is dieing. In the 90's it was far more popular than WRPGs, but now it is below WRPG and way below MMORPGs.

Even if you count handheld JRPG sales, it will still be below WRPGs. And MMORPGs trounce both JRPGs and WRPGs.

 

That's a ridiculous statement.  First of all, Pokemon has outsold every WRPG this gen.  Almost combined. It also outsold WoW.  Signifficantly. It also sold far more than the Pokemon games last gen, showing a strengthening of that franchise in the genre.  There are also far more million selling JRPGs this gen than WRPGs counting handhelds, and no JRPG franchise or genre has sold less this gen than it did last gen.  There is an even larger difference between million selling JRPGs and million selling MMORPGs, of which there is only one with more than a million players right now. 

Your ignorance is showing.  You might want to cover that up.



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naznatips said:
shio said:
The JRPG sub-genre is dieing. In the 90's it was far more popular than WRPGs, but now it is below WRPG and way below MMORPGs.

Even if you count handheld JRPG sales, it will still be below WRPGs. And MMORPGs trounce both JRPGs and WRPGs.

 

That's a ridiculous statement.  First of all, Pokemon has outsold every WRPG this gen.  Almost combined. It also outsold WoW.  Signifficantly. It also sold far more than the Pokemon games last gen, showing a strengthening of that franchise in the genre.  There are also far more million selling JRPGs this gen than WRPGs counting handhelds, and no JRPG franchise or genre has sold less this gen than it did last gen.  There is an even larger difference between million selling JRPGs and million selling MMORPGs, of which there is only one with more than a million players right now. 

Your ignorance is showing.  You might want to cover that up.

Thank you! Put down the JRPG haters.



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outlawauron said:
Impulsivity said:
Seriously? How can you not like Jade Empire or the original KOTOR? (NOT KOTOR 2, that was Obsidians fault)

More recently Mass Effect is without a doubt the best RPG on the market from the last 3 years. I don't know...everything about their games is more or less spot on, I can't think of a bad game they've made offhand. There aren't many companies I can say that about (maybe Naughty Dog).

I liked the first KOTOR, I haven't finished Jade Empire, and Mass Effect was biggest overrated game of 2007. It filled with tons pop-in, textures issues, slowdown, and huge load times. And I really hated that once you got til the last two hours of the game, you couldn't go back and explore more.

 

   Try the PC version, its VASTLY superior.  All the problems caused by the 360s inadequate hardware are solved and the game looks glorious.  Yes there were some limitations on end game explorations, but I never really had a problem since I tended to go to new places the second they were available and wait on continuing the main quest.  

 

   As to Mass Effect being over rated, if you're talking about the PC version that is 100% untrue.  The PC version of Mass Effect is the best RPG I've played since....well Bioshocks LAST great RPG, Jade Empire.  I'm sure it will be the best RPG out there until Dragon Age comes out, which will hold the crown until Mass Effect 2.  The only game to really give Bioshock a run for its WRPG money is probably the Witcher, which was flat out awesome (if you haven't played it go get the extended version now!!! It is just so very very awesome).




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Impulsivity said:
Seriously? How can you not like Jade Empire or the original KOTOR? (NOT KOTOR 2, that was Obsidians fault)

More recently Mass Effect is without a doubt the best RPG on the market from the last 3 years. I don't know...everything about their games is more or less spot on, I can't think of a bad game they've made offhand. There aren't many companies I can say that about (maybe Naughty Dog).

 

KOTOR was awesome.  It's also 5 and a half years old, and they haven't made a great game since then.  Mass Effect is a mess.  There's a good game in there, but it's as repetitive and simplistic as any JRPG, and from a technical perspective one of the worst designed high-budget games this generation. It's just not criticized for it due to our current review system loving muscly space marines and guns and things that go boom.  Not to mention sex.



"More recently Mass Effect is without a doubt the best RPG on the market from the last 3 years."

Mass Effect isn't as good as FFXII or Persona 3 or 4 on the PS2.
My biggest gripe about those Bioware games is they are very much like if Hollywood set out to make a jrpg. They are good on the outside but shallow on the deeper levels unlike FF, Persona, or the majority of great JRPGs.



My most anticipated games:  Whatever Hideo Kojima is going to do next, Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Gran Turismo 5, Alan Wake, Wii Sports Resort.  Cave Story Wiiware.

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naznatips said:
shio said:
The JRPG sub-genre is dieing. In the 90's it was far more popular than WRPGs, but now it is below WRPG and way below MMORPGs.

Even if you count handheld JRPG sales, it will still be below WRPGs. And MMORPGs trounce both JRPGs and WRPGs.

 

That's a ridiculous statement.  First of all, Pokemon has outsold every WRPG this gen.  Almost combined. It also outsold WoW.  Signifficantly. It also sold far more than the Pokemon games last gen, showing a strengthening of that franchise in the genre.  There are also far more million selling JRPGs this gen than WRPGs counting handhelds, and no JRPG franchise or genre has sold less this gen than it did last gen.  There is an even larger difference between million selling JRPGs and million selling MMORPGs, of which there is only one with more than a million players right now. 

Your ignorance is showing.  You might want to cover that up.

   It depends how you define sales.  For Pokemon for instance it has indeed sold tens of millions of copies vs WoW selling maybe 15-20 million copies (it has 11 million current subs, have to figure some have come and gone so the copies sold is almost certainly much higher then current subs).

   But Pokemon fans are not paying 15 dollars every month for 4 years to play.  WoW has made more in any given year in subscripton fees then Pokemon has made through its entire existance.  11 million times 15 bucks a month is 165 million per month (or 5 million DS game sales) so over the course of a year WoW makes the same ammount as 60 million sales of pokemon games, or more or less all the handheld pokemon sales combined.  That of course isn't counting the 50 bucks for the original game+expansion (or the new expansion coming out soon).  All told WoW has made at least 5 billion dollars thus far, and that total will go up another billion in the next few months between the expansion pack selling to 11 million people and the continued subscription income.

 

   Even moderately successful MMOs make huge money, for instance FFXI is making more for Square Enix then just about everything else it puts out each year combined.

 




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Paul_Warren said:
"More recently Mass Effect is without a doubt the best RPG on the market from the last 3 years."

Mass Effect isn't as good as FFXII or Persona 3 or 4 on the PS2.
My biggest gripe about those Bioware games is they are very much like if Hollywood set out to make a jrpg. They are good on the outside but shallow on the deeper levels unlike FF, Persona, or the majority of great JRPGs.

 

On the flip side: FFXII was freaking awful.  For all Mass Effect's faults it was still a good (but not great) game underneath.  FFXII was a melee button-mashing, cliched-story, horrendous characters, autopilot combat, broken mess of a game.  It was nearly flawless on a technical level, but did almost nothing else right.

The only big-name WRPG in recent years to have as many issues is Oblivion, which I admit was even worse.

 

It's not the big games that define the genres.  There's more to gaming than hype and "OMG AAA."  Look around a bit.  You might find the best games are in the shadows.



naznatips said:
Impulsivity said:
Seriously? How can you not like Jade Empire or the original KOTOR? (NOT KOTOR 2, that was Obsidians fault)

More recently Mass Effect is without a doubt the best RPG on the market from the last 3 years. I don't know...everything about their games is more or less spot on, I can't think of a bad game they've made offhand. There aren't many companies I can say that about (maybe Naughty Dog).

 

KOTOR was awesome.  It's also 5 and a half years old, and they haven't made a great game since then.  Mass Effect is a mess.  There's a good game in there, but it's as repetitive and simplistic as any JRPG, and from a technical perspective one of the worst designed high-budget games this generation. It's just not criticized for it due to our current review system loving muscly space marines and guns and things that go boom.  Not to mention sex.

 

  So it is possible to have sex with one of the other characters if you develop a relationship just before the end of the game...is that unrealistic given the way human relationships work?  Do you expect that characters who have been through months of very stressful situations would not develop some kind of bond and maybe even, yes, a physical relationship?  It isn't just WRPGs that feature this, if you remember Xenogears the two main characters had sex in that as well just before the end.  These games are not pokemon, they aren't designed for the 5-10 year old market.

 

   As to the muscly space marines thing, that isn't at all the point of mass effect.  It was a very interesting and yes, deep and involved, story.  Just because it took place in the future as opposed to a dream world of magic does not mean that the issues it addressed from abuse of power to corruption in government to the potential dangers of complex self conscious AI were not well addressed and engaging.  

 

   Again I go back to choice as the engine of WRPG superiority.  In Mass Effect you could approach problems in very different ways.  In the end of the game you can make decisions (which I won't spoil) which can lead to a continuation of an intergalactic republic or a human led totalitarian dictatorship.  All through the game you can approach questions in interesting and diverse ways, even questions without a clear answer.  If the last surviving Queen of a formerly hostile alien race promises to live in harmony with the rest of the galaxy do you let her live or do you finish the genocide of her species?  Do you turn in a dissident on a corrupt planet to its ruling dictator or do you help him find evidence sufficient to bring that corrupt leader down?  There are just great questions and situations in the game that are more complex then anything I've seen in JRPGs recently.  There are great shades of grey much like in real life, while almost all JRPGs still deal primarily in black and white and never really give the player any choices other then what gear to equip or what spell to learn.




 PSN ID: ChosenOne feel free to add me

Impulsivity said:
naznatips said:
shio said:
The JRPG sub-genre is dieing. In the 90's it was far more popular than WRPGs, but now it is below WRPG and way below MMORPGs.

Even if you count handheld JRPG sales, it will still be below WRPGs. And MMORPGs trounce both JRPGs and WRPGs.

 

That's a ridiculous statement.  First of all, Pokemon has outsold every WRPG this gen.  Almost combined. It also outsold WoW.  Signifficantly. It also sold far more than the Pokemon games last gen, showing a strengthening of that franchise in the genre.  There are also far more million selling JRPGs this gen than WRPGs counting handhelds, and no JRPG franchise or genre has sold less this gen than it did last gen.  There is an even larger difference between million selling JRPGs and million selling MMORPGs, of which there is only one with more than a million players right now. 

Your ignorance is showing.  You might want to cover that up.

   It depends how you define sales.  For Pokemon for instance it has indeed sold tens of millions of copies vs WoW selling maybe 15-20 million copies (it has 11 million current subs, have to figure some have come and gone so the copies sold is almost certainly much higher then current subs).

   But Pokemon fans are not paying 15 dollars every month for 4 years to play.  WoW has made more in any given year in subscripton fees then Pokemon has made through its entire existance.  11 million times 15 bucks a month is 165 million per month (or 5 million DS game sales) so over the course of a year WoW makes the same ammount as 60 million sales of pokemon games, or more or less all the handheld pokemon sales combined.  That of course isn't counting the 50 bucks for the original game+expansion (or the new expansion coming out soon).  All told WoW has made at least 5 billion dollars thus far, and that total will go up another billion in the next few months between the expansion pack selling to 11 million people and the continued subscription income.

 

   Even moderately successful MMOs make huge money, for instance FFXI is making more for Square Enix then just about everything else it puts out each year combined.

 

 

WoW is certainly worth more money than Pokemon (well, ignoring the other parts of the franchise such as products, anime, card games, etc, where Pokemon makes even more in Japan than off the games), but that's not in any way the topic of discussion.  He said the JRPG genre was dying, and wasn't as popular as WRPGs or MMOs.  This is not true. 

Also source your last statement.



Impulsivity said:
naznatips said:
Impulsivity said:
Seriously? How can you not like Jade Empire or the original KOTOR? (NOT KOTOR 2, that was Obsidians fault)

More recently Mass Effect is without a doubt the best RPG on the market from the last 3 years. I don't know...everything about their games is more or less spot on, I can't think of a bad game they've made offhand. There aren't many companies I can say that about (maybe Naughty Dog).

 

KOTOR was awesome.  It's also 5 and a half years old, and they haven't made a great game since then.  Mass Effect is a mess.  There's a good game in there, but it's as repetitive and simplistic as any JRPG, and from a technical perspective one of the worst designed high-budget games this generation. It's just not criticized for it due to our current review system loving muscly space marines and guns and things that go boom.  Not to mention sex.

 

  So it is possible to have sex with one of the other characters if you develop a relationship just before the end of the game...is that unrealistic given the way human relationships work?  Do you expect that characters who have been through months of very stressful situations would not develop some kind of bond and maybe even, yes, a physical relationship?  It isn't just WRPGs that feature this, if you remember Xenogears the two main characters had sex in that as well just before the end.  These games are not pokemon, they aren't designed for the 5-10 year old market.

 

   As to the muscly space marines thing, that isn't at all the point of mass effect.  It was a very interesting and yes, deep and involved, story.  Just because it took place in the future as opposed to a dream world of magic does not mean that the issues it addressed from abuse of power to corruption in government to the potential dangers of complex self conscious AI were not well addressed and engaging.  

 

   Again I go back to choice as the engine of WRPG superiority.  In Mass Effect you could approach problems in very different ways.  In the end of the game you can make decisions (which I won't spoil) which can lead to a continuation of an intergalactic republic or a human led totalitarian dictatorship.  All through the game you can approach questions in interesting and diverse ways, even questions without a clear answer.  If the last surviving Queen of a formerly hostile alien race promises to live in harmony with the rest of the galaxy do you let her live or do you finish the genocide of her species?  Do you turn in a dissident on a corrupt planet to its ruling dictator or do you help him find evidence sufficient to bring that corrupt leader down?  There are just great questions and situations in the game that are more complex then anything I've seen in JRPGs recently.  There are great shades of grey much like in real life, while almost all JRPGs still deal primarily in black and white and never really give the player any choices other then what gear to equip or what spell to learn.

 

Relationship? That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.  If you think that's anything like a real relationship you need to get out more.  My god unless you call her a whore and beat her (metaphorically speaking of course) she falls in your damn lap (not metaphorically speaking). 

Same with the interesting and deep story.  Read a book man.  The story was a freaking evil alien invasion.  As far as choice goes, the game's choices are pitch black and pure white with the slight exception of the choice at the end of the game, and even then because of Bioware's infinite wisdom in putting the "good" option at the top and the "evil" option at the bottom it's easy to figure out what they want you to do. 

For the record, Fable 2 was much better about the choice thing. At least the last choice in it actually had some real difficulty.  Not because it was hard to see what the morally perfect thing to do was, but because you would have to make a genuine sacrifice to do it.