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Forums - General Discussion - THE BEST PRESIDENT TO EVER LEAD THE USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Final-Fan on 15 November 2008
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
elprincipe said:
The New Deal was a dismal failure, in other words, as it completely failed to produce an economic recovery, thus proving for all time that government cannot produce economic prosperity.
Just look at Germany and the Soviet Union at the same time.  While the United States and Britian were bogged down by the Great Depression, Germany and Russia nationalized their economies and turned themselves from economic 'poor houses' to superpowers.

The fact that countries like Germany and Russia prospered during the Great Depression is ample evidence to prove your statement inaccurate.
Ever hear the term "The cure is worse then the disease."
Even so, it's a fair rebuttal to elprincipe's "the cure does not exist".  Although I have to say that elprincipe had already proved himself wrong by claiming that GOVERNMENT military demand in WWII pulled us out of the Depression.
Though can we claim for sure that it was the New Deal that actually caused it to happen or that it was a natural turn?

After all the general basis behind the great depression in the "New Deal" term of thoughts is that it was caused by the rich becoming richer, and the poor not having enough money to mass consume.   Yet now, the distribution of wealth is far higher then in those days.

Such things are hard to explain and figure out... espiecially when you only have one level of data points.

Though this is almost the right era to discuss things according to the "Seventh Generation" standard.

Though i imagine that may be why you have a more earnest argueing over whether the New Deal actually was helpfull or not or who it was helpful for.

Maybe it's because I'm tired and sick, but I'm afraid I don't see how this is in any way a response to the quoted material. 

(Although you do have a good point about the New Deal -- that it's hard to determine scientifically what effect it had exactly.)



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Kasz216 on 15 November 2008
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:

I'm not saying that Germany and Russia were great by any means, I'm saying that since their since economies prospered during the Great Depression that it proves the idea that 'all government intervention is bad' is wrong. 

The extreme government interaction led to Nazism and "Communism"  that lead to two of the worst killing sprees in the history of the world.

I'd say your arguement is a bit off base.  Furthermore, their intervention was much more solid.

To use other governments as a case study that used much more drastic means seems like a bad move.

Is your argument that in order for government intervention to work it has to be extreme?

A better case for my idealogy would be Scandinavia, but prosperity during the Great Depression is a easy example to look at to disprove the notion that government intervention hurts the economy.

No.  I'd say more that every country got out of the great recession, and not ever country got more socialist.

Though I would say that if you suddenly take countrol of the very purchasing power of the nation via taking countrol of the actual industries, of course you are going to have an effect on their economies as you can force those people to make stuff even without profit.

The actual economy isn't improving at all.  It's just your changing the entire way the economy works so it looks like it's improving when the fundamentals haven't changed.  That was the thing.  "Government Intervention" economics seem more like massive deficit spending to prop up a weak economy until it got better then an actual fix.  That's exactlly when the fix came afterall, when FDR gave up balancing the budget and started defict spending.

Based on the theory that the great depression was due to the division of wealth... and that there is a greater division then there is now.  (That was the main guiding principle of the New Deal afterall.)

Not that propping up the economy through the roughtest times is nessisairly bad.  Though I would argue that propping up the economy through very minor reciessions is one of the big problems we have the financial crisis we have today.

 



Kasz216 on 15 November 2008

By the way.

The best case for Government Intervention being a good thing is the "Japanese Miracle".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_post-war_economic_miracle

 

 



Final-Fan on 15 November 2008

"Not that propping up the economy through the roughtest times is nessisairly bad. Though I would argue that propping up the economy through very minor reciessions is one of the big problems we have the financial crisis we have today."

I'd certainly agree that the constant huge deficit spending of 1975-1992 and 2002-2008 was a grave mistake. I was looking forward to a Democratic administration putting a stop to it, but unfortunately we're now in a situation where it's REASONABLE to call for huge deficit spending. Ugh. Hopefully next term, the economy will be better and we'll get the deficit under control.

Found a cool graph at http://traxel.com/deficit/ :


P.S. There were times in those years when some deficit spending may have been justified, but even then not to the degree that it happened.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

nintendo792612 on 15 November 2008

gorge washington
lincoln and after are ALL horrible except jfk



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