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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why You Can't Blame Reggie If "Disaster: DoC" Doesn't Make it to the US

There are several reasons why you cannot blame Reggie Fils-Aime of Nintendo of America if "Disaster: Day of Crisis" never makes it to American shores. (I bring this up because so many people, upon hearing Reggie's comments about the game, want to blame him).

 

* Sluggish Sales

This game has not taken off in its home market of Japan. This is the market where the game was developed. This is where there is no console competition. And yet the sales have been modest -- Less than 27K. About half were in the debut week of 13K -- which placed it 11th in Japan that week among all games, just ahead of Mario Kart Wii. Meanwhile, the first-day sales in Europe were less than 4K.

* Third-Party Predictiment

This is the type of game that Nintendo wants third-parties to produce and convince them it will sell on the Wii. So releasing a first-party game (especially one that might not sell well), could really get other companies to re-think their plans. That is exactly what Nintendo does not want to see happen.

*Greater Competition

In the US, all three consoles sell. That is very different from Japan, where only the Wii has had any sort of relative traction as compared to previous generations. It is also different from Contintential Europe where the PS3 has made up ground after the Xbox 360's early start and subsequent stall.  So if you are looking to play a complex third-person adventure game in the US, there are two consoles which sell which also can produce a game with better graphics and more size. In the other markets, there are no more than one.

* Market Segmentation

Nintendo's Blue Ocean Strategy has come at the expense of being able to lead in the Male 18-34 market demographic. The HD consoles do that in the US. Nintendo takes everything else. The market for this game is Males 18-34. If the game is not super-great, it may not be in Nintendo's best interest to release it.

*Mixed Reviews

The game got an 8.0 from IGN UK -- but the review did not read like an 8.0. It got 34/40 from Famitsu -- but there are validity questions with that source. It has also gotten some 5s and 6s from European reviewers -- along with other 7s and 8s. In other words, the game is good but not great. And unlike some games, it is not one that can be confused for what it is or what it is trying to be.

*American Political Attitudes

Having terrorists attacking the US is not a real popular theme right now in the US. Given the grief Nintendo got for "allowing" Manhunt 2 to be published on its "family friendly" console in the popular press and among politicos, publishing a game that depicits an attack on the nation itself may be more risky than profitable.

*He's Reggie

Hello. Reggie has brought Nintendo back. He deserves the benefit of the doubt -- at least this time. Unlike most people here, he has seen/played the game. And if Nintendo HQ really wanted the game released in the US, it would be done. But it is his choice and he is taking a wait-and-see attitude. He knows what is coming and may just not to spend money dubbing out the voice track (full of swearing) to avoid an M-rating when other games

 

Mike from Morgantown

 

I still believe that this game will come to the US -- if European sales are strong. However, I am beginning to doubt that European sales will be sufficiently strong.



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

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I don't buy the sluggish sales argument. The game appears to be targeted to Western audiences, and very few traditional console titles are doing all that well in Japan right now. By that reasoning, No More Heroes should never have left Japan.

I also never thought that Nintendo cares about fostering third-party development, certainly not to the point where they halt development/porting of their own games. Nintendo is far more indifferent to third-parties than Microsoft is (or Sony was). They'll be happy to extend an invite, but they ain't going to hamstring themselves.

The market segmentation argument is equally unpersuasive. Nintendo does NOT want to exclude traditional gaming democgraphics; developing titles like Sin and Punishment 2 (and Disaster, for that matter) show that they very much so do care about that group. In fact, the majority of their Wii games are directed towards the "core" than the "expanded audience" so far, and that doesn't look to change.

The mixed reviews also probably don't play that large a role. For one thing, they brought over Barrel Blast, which is not the highest-rated game ever. More importantly, the decision on whether or not to localize was almost certainly made long before the review scores started coming in; there's a lot of groundwork to be done when localizing, and they're not going to wait for reviewers to give a yea or nay before starting.

I also disagree about the American political attitude. Things like 24 show that we're perfectly fine with terrorist stuff (as long as we win in the end ). Heck, we've had plenty of games come out this year that revolve around that theme. Rainbow Six, anyone?

As for the "he's Reggie!" argument, I actually don't give him much credit myself. He's a marketer first and foremost: he had a hand in making the Wii big here, but the majority of the credit goes to the Japanese branch, who not only developed the thing but also have likely held the strings taut the whole time.


Which brings me to why you're probably right that it ISN'T Reggie's fault. Despite what we may think here, Reggie really doesn't call the shots at Nintendo. If NCL wanted this game localized, it would be localized, Reggie's objections be damned. The reverse is equally true. After all, how many times has Reggie publicly said that he's been demanding more Wiis for North America, only to be brushed off by Japan? Despite how much we love him here, Reggie's influence seems to be quite limited. He may be acting like the choice is up to him...but it's almost certainly not.



noname2200's points were:

 

1: I don't buy the sluggish sales argument. The game appears to be targeted to Western audiences, and very few traditional console titles are doing all that well in Japan right now. By that reasoning, No More Heroes should never have left Japan.

2: I also never thought that Nintendo cares about fostering third-party development, certainly not to the point where they halt development/porting of their own games. Nintendo is far more indifferent to third-parties than Microsoft is (or Sony was). They'll be happy to extend an invite, but they ain't going to hamstring themselves.

3: The market segmentation argument is equally unpersuasive. Nintendo does NOT want to exclude traditional gaming democgraphics; developing titles like Sin and Punishment 2 (and Disaster, for that matter) show that they very much so do care about that group. In fact, the majority of their Wii games are directed towards the "core" than the "expanded audience" so far, and that doesn't look to change.

4: The mixed reviews also probably don't play that large a role. For one thing, they brought over Barrel Blast, which is not the highest-rated game ever. More importantly, the decision on whether or not to localize was almost certainly made long before the review scores started coming in; there's a lot of groundwork to be done when localizing, and they're not going to wait for reviewers to give a yea or nay before starting.

5: I also disagree about the American political attitude. Things like 24 show that we're perfectly fine with terrorist stuff (as long as we win in the end ). Heck, we've had plenty of games come out this year that revolve around that theme. Rainbow Six, anyone?

6: As for the "he's Reggie!" argument, I actually don't give him much credit myself. He's a marketer first and foremost: he had a hand in making the Wii big here, but the majority of the credit goes to the Japanese branch, who not only developed the thing but also have likely held the strings taut the whole time.


7: Which brings me to why you're probably right that it ISN'T Reggie's fault. Despite what we may think here, Reggie really doesn't call the shots at Nintendo. If NCL wanted this game localized, it would be localized, Reggie's objections be damned. The reverse is equally true. After all, how many times has Reggie publicly said that he's been demanding more Wiis for North America, only to be brushed off by Japan? Despite how much we love him here, Reggie's influence seems to be quite limited. He may be acting like the choice is up to him...but it's almost certainly not.

1: I concur. We will know after Europe more -- though first-day there were sluggish (less than 4k). My question though is this really a game for the west as much as you say it is or is this a general game that Monolith thought would sell in Japan.

2. Nintendo has worked to improve its image with third-parties this generation. In the past, it has not cared. But after the GC, it does.

3. I guess what I was trying to say here is that Nintendo may not want to bring a less than great game for that market -- one that is owned by the HD consoles in NA.

4. Agreed -- though it may be giving Reggie some wiggle room. (And DK Blast is bad! -- I want a copy but not at its current price).

5. TV and movies are thought to be adult entertainment. Video games are still thought of as being "child's play" in the US. That's why states try to pass special law. That's why the popular press and politicans go after games much more than movies, TV, or books. That's why people blame it for all ills.

6 and 7. I think you may not be giving Reggie as much credit/power as he has. But I may be giving him too much. We both agree though that if Nintendo really wanted the game here, it would be here.

 

Mike from Morgantown

 



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

Does anyone still have the link from NeoGAF where someone made an indepth analysis on how infrequent NoA localizes games nowadays in comparison to their past? I'm sorry but I just can't believe most of these reasons are valid when Nintendo had no problem localizing Odama 2 1/2 year ago when it was obvious that game wouldn't sell a lick in the US.

Edit: One more thing. This game was unveiled at E3, a convention for american gamers. If Nintendo was going to go out to showcase the title here in America, the least they can do is release it here.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.




*He's Reggie

Hello. Reggie has brought Nintendo back. He deserves the benefit of the doubt -- at least this time. Unlike most people here, he has seen/played the game. And if Nintendo HQ really wanted the game released in the US, it would be done. But it is his choice and he is taking a wait-and-see attitude. He knows what is coming and may just not to spend money dubbing out the voice track (full of swearing) to avoid an M-rating when other games

Hello, Satoru Iwata also brought Nintendo back. Don´t be a fanboy and consider whatever Reggie says to be always right and gold. I also play the game and I disagree with him (from what was taken from the IGN podcast, if it´s really true). Most of your other points are not valid, there are other more controversial games that have been published in the U.S.A , Disaster can easily too. Europe has also been hit big time by terrorists, why publish it here? This game didn´t have any japanese appeal from the beginning and like LBP it´s a game that can appeal to everybody in the world. If Nintendo doesn´t want to publish it, another publisher could always publish it at their place instead. I don´t think it´s Reggie´s fault , but rather the whole NoA.



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I think there's another factor here and that's NOA doesn't want to release a game that competes with HD games and falls short. I think they'd rather release games for 'everyone else' and rely on Nintendo classic franchises for the male 13-34 crowd (which don't directly compete with HD action games)



 

I don't blame Reggie but I think this game could do fairly decent here and it looks like a ton of fun.

Basically, I want to play it!



So where did this diasister sells less then 4K on the first day data come from?



"To love and to cherish, in sickness and in health, for as long you shall be resurrected from death in the church"

Some corrections and clarifications

1. I misread the listing for the game. I thought the number under the European Flag (3,914) was its total sales in that territory. It is the number of hits on the game profile. However, the game appears to be under 7,000 on Day 1. It was released on Oct. 24, and the top 100 charts through Oct. 25 include games that sold less than 7,000 -- and Disaster is not on it.

2. I do not mean to say that Reggie is "god" -- I am certainly not a fanboy. However, my thought is that given his track record, he deserves the benefit of the doubt about what will sell in North America. If you have played the game and have a different opinion, that is fine. But I doubt most people in this discussion have played the game.

3. Nintendo of America appears to be playing things much closer to the vest right now. That may not be the best thing for gamers though. Hopefully it is just a momentary lapse of reason.

4. I am aware that Europe has seen and has always seen much more terrorist activity than the US. But something like that on the Wii by Nintendo could prove to be much more political fodder in the US than elsewhere in the world, given the perverse nature of our politicians.

5. It is strange that an E3 debut game may not make it to America. But the disappearance (not delays, but possible near cancellation) may just mean it is not that good. And I think Gamerace has said better what I have tried to say -- it is not as strong as other similar games on the HD consoles.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

Thanks Soriku.

It used to be that when people complained about Nintendo's abominable localization practices, I sort of didn't care. We have it better that Europe, a lot of stuff is still making it over, a lot of the stuff that's being passed on is junk, and most of the decisions tended to be at least sort of justified by sales potential.

Until recently when I realized that none of these are true and Nintendo of America just really sucks at properly bringing over software. Europe now has exclusives; Tingle on DS, Disaster: Day of Crisis, and possibly Captain Rainbow will all be making the journey to Europe while North America isn't getting anything... and guess what, Nintendo in Japan just announced 13 Wii games and a half-dozen DS games; Nintendo of America turned around and announced the localization of two Wii games and a DS game. Gee, thanks guys! A real record of faith in your parent company's products. I'm sure people will be happy to hear you've got a grand total of two titles announced for the 1st half of 2009 and one of them should have been released this Christmas anyway.

Is it localization costs? No, it isn't. Games are being localized by Treehouse, tested by NoA's testing team, and then thrown into a void. Case in point: ASH-Archaic Sealed Heat. This game was localized. This game was tested. It's been done and ready for release for six months. It's ESRB rated. No planned release at this time. None of this is in dispute.

Is it a busy release schedule? Hell, no. It's not even a case of giving other titles excessive room to breathe. Nintendo is going full calendar months without releasing titles.

Is it prestige? Thanks for Donkey Kong Barrel Blast. I'm glad you passed on a half-dozen DS titles during the same meeting you approval that stinker for import.

Is it release costs and promotion or sales potential? No. Nintendo's localization decisions on their face have nothing to do with this. We got Chibi Robo DS exclusively at Wal-Mart (enjoy your low-5 digit sales, guys!). We got Magical Starsign (hope the massive GameFAQs ad campaign helped when the game was ten bucks four months after release). We got Endless Ocean; a solid title to be sure but hardly a breadwinner. If we were allowed to share the leaked NPD data that's popped up over the years there'd be pages and pages of examples of Nintendo passing on obviously profitable titles and localizing swill that bombs. In the mean time, enough people imported Ouendan from Play-Asia (last available number was solidly into the five digits) at twenty dollars over the would-be domestic price to make a domestic localization and release profitable.

It's certainly not creative potential; why else would we get Custom Robo DS, the fifth time the exact same game was released, but skip out on theta, Mag Kid, and other more experimental DS titles.

After this weeks conference various game writers asked about some 2008 Nintendo products that aren't coming over. Disaster (the game has English VA, plays to western audiences, and is being localized for Europe so will have English text)? Well, they're waiting to see how it does in Europe. Fatal Frame IV? NoA passed; some other publisher has it. Soma Bringer? What's that? Seriously.

But the proof is in the pudding:


(Two notes: I excluded Virtual Boy, N64 Disk Drive, SNES Nintendo Power mail-order games, the recent Club Nintendo DS games, and I did not include the Famicom/Disk System in the early years of the graph because I understand that having to cross-engineer FDS titles to NES was a bit of a pain and I'm willing to give them credit for that).

This chart is designed to be biased in favour of Nintendo of America. I specifically gave Nintendo credit for any game that would not be well suited for America (Mahjong, DS novels, etc). I specifically gave them credit for any licenced games. When Nintendo released a game in Japan and then later released an upgraded version but we only got one or the other (Animal Crossing Cube, Clubhouse Games), I gave them credit for both. I counted bitGenerations as one title. Edit: I also gave them credit for Cubivore / Polarium Advance / anything else they punted off to another publisher. I'm bending over backwards here to make Nintendo of America's record look good.

Well, it doesn't look good. It's pathetic. Hey game journalists, stop asking questions about individual titles not being localized and ask Nintendo why they're localizing a substantially lower preportion of their titles regardless of genre, quality, or profile. I'm sure your readers want to know about Mother 3, but the more troubling thing is that more titles have gone unlocalized in the last three years than in the previous ten.

Need some game suggestions for 2009 to fill the holes? How about Fatal Frame IV, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Captain Rainbow, Soma Bringer, Glory of Heracles, Band Bros DX, We are Fossil Diggers, Card Hero DS, Make 10 (already released in English-speaking territories), theta, Kurikin Nano Island Story, Tingle, Project Hacker, Chou Soujuu Mecha MG, either of the DS Starfy titles, or ASH?

I've done Nintendo the favour of writing their canned reply so they don't need to bother: "Nintendo is always evaluating new titles for domestic release. A variety of factors are included in each and every decision. We regret that we are unable to domestically release all titles our fans ask for, but we are committed to delivering a broad slate of titles in 2009 and beyond. Keep checking back for news about great new games."

See Mike from Morgantown? Disaster isn't just one case. It's a recurring example of NoA's new attitude. I'm sorry but I would like some of the niche Nintendo titles even if they aren't going to be powersellers. Nintendo knew that when they greenlit stuff like Captain Rainbow, Odama and Chibi-Robo. We may as well get a crack at it too, at least in a limited release.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.