WARNING: Be careful Wii haters, I will report you instantly if you are going to Troll in this thread.

First of all some definitions:

Core gamers: Traditional, conservative, reluctant to change, long time videogame players.

Expanded audience: People who didn't play video games in the past but is now insterested mainly because of rise of the Nintendo Wii.

Keeping in mind that core gamers and expanded audience are terms pretty "black and white", I am going to try to formulate this problem for you so we can discuss about it. Reviewers are not part of the expanded audience. If you are going to make a living out of playing videogames and reviewing them, chances are you are a core gamer. What do the core gamers consider a good game? More of the same with some gradual improvements. More shooters, more RPG's, more fighters, more sports games, you name the well stablished genre. Those genres had manage to stablish some standards like for example: graphics, sound, story, multiplayer, replay value, etc.

Now, my theory is that the Nintendo Wii represents a true revolution in the sense that radically changed the definition of what a good videogame is. It is so different that the concept of a "good video game" is became now even more subjective. And this may be the case of Wii Music. The average review score is 60/100 in Metacritics. But the range between higher and lower scores is just way too big. One of this gave it 91/100 and the other 30/100. What is wrong with this reviewers?

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3170709&p=44

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=46816&start=50

http://wii.ign.com/articles/921/921024p1.html

http://gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/4F0E78F8-D0CA-4791-8B07-424C988BF8CA.htm

One of the arguments I've read against the Nintendo Wii is that it had dumbed down the video games so everybody can play. According to this, Wii games have no real challenge. It is a casual console of pick and play games.

I've had the chance to play Guitar Hero once on a friends house once. Being a casual real guitar player myself, I found it too easy to play it in level easy or medium. I nailed one of the songs with 95% in my third try. So I thought that the real challenge would be to play it in hard or expert difficulty. (Very close to the real thing, so...) And I became a fan of the Guitar Hero series and I hope I can get me GHWT sooner or later.

I HAVEN'T PLAYED Wii Music yet. And that's why I started this thread. I always do some research before buying a game. But I don't think I can't trust the reviewers for this one. Besides, there's also the chance that reviewers may be Wii-haters! From the videos you can see how difficult a Guitar Hero song may be. But it is just not the case with Wii Music. You must really listen to this gameplay clips, and what I hear is very close to the sounds produced by someone who is trying to learn how to play a REAL INSTRUMENT. In that case, the game is not really pick and play like Wii Sports. It may be hard!

(EDIT: Even more difficult for the core gamers since they could be reluctant to admit they hate a Wii game because it is too hard. They may just lose the patience because is way too diferent to everything they are used to. They may just become too frustrated, so they won't say it is dificult; instead they would just say is: a bad game. But the fact of the matter it that is hard for everyone, and harder for someone who is not enough opened-minded.)

So please, people who already bought the game and give it a good long try, answer me this:

Is Wii Music too hard for the core gamers?

The game is insanely hard, and also crazy easy, that's what's getting a lot of people. They see how easy it is to pick up, create total crap, and think they have played the game.

The difficulty level for me in this game is in learning to manipulate the different instruments correctly for one, and then applying them in the various arrangements. It's crazy difficult, I've played this game quite a bit since I got it, and I am not nearly anywhere good enough at it do start doing the cool things I want to do. Sure, it's quite easy to just tap out the song if you want to just leave it as it is, but when you want to add tempo and pitch changes and some nice improv stuff, it get's a lot harder. And I have a feeling that there's lot's of other creative ways to customize your music too. I acn't wait to follow the youtube videos people come up with.

This game truly is genius, I can pick it up with my young kids and we have a great time just going nuts together, the result is quite terrible, but still awesome fun, then when they go to bed I can pick it back up, and spend hours just working on one segment of a song, picking the right tempo and trying to find the right instrument to get the timber I want for what I want to do.

Everyone has seen the IGN video and review, and if that is all you can put into the game, it won't be much point, but anyone with the least bit of interest in how music is actually structured will be able to play this game for infinity hours and still be able to enjoy it, just like playing a guitar is fun even if you've played it for hours and hours before.

The game concept is to have fun with music, as simple and as genius as that, if you cant' have fun with music, then you can't have fun with this game. If you love music, and love creating things, you'll have tons and tons of fun. One thing is certain though, the design of this game is absolutely amazing, people saying it is overpriced probably don't realize how brilliantly put together this game is.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=45750

I made this thread a while back about how hard Wii Music is. In the enthusiast media, I'm not sure if anybody has approached this game better than Stephen Totilo. Here are some things he said about the game:

"In making such a complex performance, I could appreciate why “Wii Music” starts off with such ridiculously basic songs. Even with a simple song, I was challenged to put together a six-Mii rendition that sounded both unique and good.

At least I nailed the unique part."

"It was surprising and interesting to be taught how to turn a non-rock song into a rock song. What was less fun, however, was my inability to match the expected pattern for bass guitar and therefore fail the lesson. I’m excited by the idea that the game could teach me to play Wii-style tunes in different musical styles like rock, reggae and jazz. I’m concerned that I may not have enough musical talent to complete the lessons."

"This isn’t the kind of game that I see myself playing to win. But I’m driven right now by an oddly distinct goal: to make what I play sound better, and to hope against hope that I have the musical skills to keep up. Otherwise, I may have to have to bail out."

Well I think the definition you provided for core is actually the definition of hardcore. But otherwise, I agree. Hardcore players expect to be instantly awesome at games because they have "teh skillz". If they aren't instantly good then the game must be broken.

The problem with the thread is that you're loosely implying that the "expanded audience" never existed until the Wii.

true, but it doesn't really destroy the integrity of the thread, given you can slip in "and ps2" or whatever you please into the definition without altering the context/content of the thread

I think you're forgetting that there are core gamers out there that also play musical instruments or have knowledge about music on a composer/playing level.

That's probably why guitar hero resonated with so many of them, because whilst it isn't a way to learn how to play a guitar or a real alternative to a guitar, it's fun and gets certain fundamentals correct.

Problem with Wii music is that it doesn't do that. From what I've read, certain instruments representations in-game are too simplistic so that they don't truly represent the instrument, and others are too complex that they also don't accurately portray the real thing (I've heard the drums are a bitch).

So I would not say it's too hard to play from the basis that it's so close to realism that core gamers who don't play instruments won't understand it, it's more like it's strays so far from realism in the fundamentals (i.e the instruments themselves) that it "sucks".

Personally, as a "core" gamer who doesn't play a musical instrument, I hate Wii music. Not because of what it is, but what it's creation implies. Miyamoto spent X amount of years working on this game when we could have had another Zelda or Mario by now.

EDIT: By the way, I think you're warning is laughable. Yes you do have the power to report people but:

Moderators decide who gets banned, so just because people disagree with you and do so harshly (you perhaps may deem them a "troll"), a Moderator may just take it for what it is, a harshly worded disagreement, and the poster would not have known about the reporting and nothing would have changed.

So you threatening to report people is pretty pointless, when we all have that power and the person "trolling" is also aware of that power, I doubt they fear banning, and because of that, I doubt your warning would concern them.

@OP


----Is Wii Music too hard for the core gamers?


Believe me its not hard, its pointless for me. Hard is to make music like i do for the last 12 years, with computers and proffesional software and hardware, try to use Nuendo or Logic to make stuff or Access Virus (a musical instrument) im sure in 2-3 years if you spent 3-4 hours a day u might have a release on a label, if you are really good that is.


----Now, my theory is that the Nintendo Wii represents a true revolution in the sense that radically changed the definition of what a good videogame is.


I am 29 years old, i have lived the true revolution in videogames, i didnt happent with the Wii, it happent a long time ago


----One of the arguments I've read against the Nintendo Wii is that it had dumbed down the video games so everybody can play. According to this, Wii games have no real challenge. It is a casual console of pick and play games.


I gave my Wii to my mother, because i didnt wanted to trash it, together with Wii i gave her Wiifit, wiiplay and wiisports. She never played a game in her life, and in a flash she loved them


----Besides, there's also the chance that reviewers may be Wii-haters!


Sure as there are PS3-haters and Xbox360-haters. Also in this world there are fanboys


----(EDIT: Even more difficult for the core gamers since they could be reluctant to admit they hate a Wii game because it is too hard. They may just lose the patience because is way too diferent to everything they are used to. They may just become too frustrated, so they won't say it is dificult; instead they would just say is: a bad game. But the fact of the matter it that is hard for everyone, and harder for someone who is not enough opened-minded.)

Not difficult. Just boring and pointless


Accept reality. I am glad you love the Wii and its games just dont speak for eveybody

So no game is hard unless you have to invest 2190-4380 hours in it to get good. Thanks for establishing that metric for us, I'm sure it will come in handy.

You didnt got my point. and im bored to explain.