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Forums - General Discussion - US Conducts Raid Inside Syria

rocketpig on 27 October 2008
akuma587 said:
rocketpig said:
akuma587 said:
The best way to fight terrorism is quit giving people a reason to hate the U.S.

That's really a ridiculous notion. There are groups attacking almost every Western nation they can find. Just "letting things be" isn't a sound solution in this case.

Of course, that doesn't mean the US needs to be meddling in every world situation they feel like, either. Even if the US pulled back every military force and gave Israel the cold shoulder, there would be terrorists who want to bomb us. We have money and a different attitude about life. Don't ever convince yourself that religious fanatics need a sound reason to declare war on another people.

 

I absolutely agree, and plenty of people in THIS country fall into that category as well.  More people than I would like to admit look at us being in the Middle East as some kind of holy war.

My counterargument is that the true fanatics need the support of people who aren't fanatics to accomplish very much as terrorists.  I estimate that the true religious fanatics who are terrorists are probably about 10-30% of whatever terrorist sect you choose.  The rest are just regular people who are pissed off and got drug into the conflict for whatever reason.  They joined because the interventionist policies of western nations have given them a reason to fight and gave into religious extremism because it seemed completely justified to them that they should attack country's with selfish ideologies and heavy-handed militarism to back up those ideologies.

Most terrorists are terrorists in response to Western interventionism.  I agree that some percentage would be terrorists no matter what we did, but they certainly wouldn't be as strong of a force if they didn't have the regular people who have become terrorists to support them.

 

Bolded: My point exactly.

 




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BringBackChrono on 27 October 2008

Earlier, the Training cells had to apply religious brain-wash to convert youth to terrorism. Thanks to the U.S for giving them a very real(and somewhat valid) reason.



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halogamer1989 on 27 October 2008
MrBubbles said:

US official: Raid on Syria killed leader of cell


SUKKARIYEH, Syria – Families in this Syrian village on Monday buried relatives they said died in a U.S. helicopter attack. A U.S. counterterrorism official said American forces killed the head of a Syrian network that funneled fighters, weapons and cash into Iraq.

...........................

Ninety percent of the foreign fighters enter through Syria, according to U.S. intelligence. Foreigners are some of the most deadly fighters in Iraq, trained in bomb-making and with small-arms expertise and more likely to be willing suicide bombers than Iraqis.

Syria is a doorway to Iraq for jihadists.  If Syria is unable at the time to take out their enemies than the U.S. will by any means necessary.  Diplomacy 101 will fix any "we going to bomb the shit out of you for attacking our border cities" mentality.  Btw, the US is engaged in a global war, not just Iraq and Afghanistan.  We had/have forces in Pakistan, Lebanon, the Philippines, support and spec ops in Indonesia and Somalia as well as probably some SEALS in the Algerian front, and mass counter-intel and black ops inside Iran and Pakistan.

 



akuma587 on 27 October 2008
halogamer1989 said:

Syria is a doorway to Iraq for jihadists.  If Syria is unable at the time to take out their enemies than the U.S. will by any means necessary.  Diplomacy 101 will fix any "we going to bomb the shit out of you for attacking our border cities" mentality.  Btw, the US is engaged in a global war, not just Iraq and Afghanistan.  We had/have forces in Pakistan, Lebanon, the Philippines, support and spec ops in Indonesia and Somalia as well as probably some SEALS in the Algerian front, and mass counter-intel and black ops inside Iran.

 

America isn't Team America.  We just can't go into any country we want and do whatever we want even if we have a good reason. 

What if Canada or Mexico invaded parts of our country to pursue criminals or some other group?  Would you be cool with that?

 



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MrBubbles on 27 October 2008
akuma587 said:

America isn't Team America.  We just can't go into any country we want and do whatever we want even if we have a good reason. 

What if Canada or Mexico invaded parts of our country to pursue criminals or some other group?  Would you be cool with that?

 

 

not like the US could do anything about it....we've given you enough black eyes in the past...so you know better now



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halogamer1989 on 27 October 2008
akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:

Syria is a doorway to Iraq for jihadists.  If Syria is unable at the time to take out their enemies than the U.S. will by any means necessary.  Diplomacy 101 will fix any "we going to bomb the shit out of you for attacking our border cities" mentality.  Btw, the US is engaged in a global war, not just Iraq and Afghanistan.  We had/have forces in Pakistan, Lebanon, the Philippines, support and spec ops in Indonesia and Somalia as well as probably some SEALS in the Algerian front, and mass counter-intel and black ops inside Iran.

 

America isn't Team America.  We just can't go into any country we want and do whatever we want even if we have a good reason. 

What if Canada or Mexico invaded parts of our country to pursue criminals or some other group?  Would you be cool with that?

 

They have and yes I am cool with it if they are tracking criminals or possibly terrorists per DHS protocols.  In regard to sovereignty, the UN has no mandate over the US except for peace talks which are pointless diplomatic bickering acts and w/o the US it would fall apart.



akuma587 on 27 October 2008
halogamer1989 said:

They have and yes I am cool with it if they are tracking criminals or possibly terrorists per DHS protocols.  In regard to sovereignty, the UN has no mandate over the US except for peace talks which are pointless diplomatic bickering acts and w/o the US it would fall apart.

Just because they don't have any mandate over us doesn't mean we SHOULD DO IT.  Just because we are an essential part of the UN doesn't give us justification to do what we want.

That's like saying the President can violate the Constitution because the country would fall apart without him.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

halogamer1989 on 27 October 2008
akuma587 said:
halogamer1989 said:

They have and yes I am cool with it if they are tracking criminals or possibly terrorists per DHS protocols.  In regard to sovereignty, the UN has no mandate over the US except for peace talks which are pointless diplomatic bickering acts and w/o the US it would fall apart.

Just because they don't have any mandate over us doesn't mean we SHOULD DO IT.  Just because we are an essential part of the UN doesn't give us justification to do what we want.

That's like saying the President can violate the Constitution because the country would fall apart without him.

 

And the consequences of not committing to an action when a threat is present and the country with that threat neither has the will and/capabilty to take out their enemies are terrible to contemplate if we just stand by.  We would get blamed for being isolationist and not helping weaker nations if we stood by.  It is a damned iudo, damned iudon't scenario in military scenarios.

 



Jackson50 on 28 October 2008
halogamer1989 said:

And the consequences of not committing to an action when a threat is present and the country with that threat neither has the will and/capabilty to take out their enemies are terrible to contemplate if we just stand by.  We would get blamed for being isolationist and not helping weaker nations if we stood by.  It is a damned iudo, damned iudon't scenario in military scenarios.

 

The US does not have carte blanche to violate a nation's borders whenever it sees fit. It is this hubris that causes the world to disdain the US and view it is an irresponsible power. The negative views associated with this raid will have much more of an impact than killing a few insurgents. What do we accomplish if we eliminate a few people only to inspire and galvanize countless others against our cause...nothing.



stof on 28 October 2008
halogamer1989 said:

And the consequences of not committing to an action when a threat is present and the country with that threat neither has the will and/capabilty to take out their enemies are terrible to contemplate if we just stand by.  We would get blamed for being isolationist and not helping weaker nations if we stood by.  It is a damned iudo, damned iudon't scenario in military scenarios.

 

 

So doesn't Syria now have the right to do whatever it takes to defend themselves against the threat of a country that just killed it's citizens? Doesn't every country have the right to develop nuclear arms as a deterrent against the United States? Don't Afghanis and Iraqis have the right to attack their invaders?

 

Or is unlimited force that violates international law only the right of the United States of America?



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