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Forums - General Discussion - The sad state of the US people.

akuma587 on 22 October 2008
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
steven787 said:
It's not about seeing you for a check up. It's like receiving cancer treatments (which cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars) but no one will treat you because it's not an emergency and when it becomes one, it's too late to treat it.

Yes.  Our healthcare system is too focused on cost rather than actual treatment.  In the best healthcare systems in the world, like France, you get treatment when you need it regardless of if you can pay for it.  Doctors are even rewarded if there patients do better on average than other doctors patients, whereas here doctors are discouraged from taking patients that can't pay.

And in actuality the average person does not need as much medical treatment in a country like France.  You know why?  Because their conditions and problems are treated BEFORE they become an emergency and when they are a lot easier to treat.

Its like the difference between paying $20 to put a lock on your door versus having to pay $2000 to replace the stuff someone stole out of your house.  Prevention in medicine makes a huge difference, but our current healthcare system discourages people from going to the doctor.

And not only that, if you ARE diagnosed with something, then your healthcare provider can drop you because they don't want to pay for your condition.  This gives people EVEN LESS incentive to go to the doctor for small problems that will eventually turn into big problems because they are worried their insurance company might drop them.

The healthcare system in America is awful in terms of its priorities, and insurance companies only make the system worse.

 

 

While I agree with this for the most part, I think there are better ways to deal with it then socialized medicine. Regulations for one.

I want my country to protect me, not take care of me.

You can thank the GOP for taking away many of the regulations that were there to protect people away, such as the ability of insurers to discriminate in who they will take as heavily as they can now.  You can also thank the GOP for deregulating insurance rates, which have significantly risen in every state after those rates were deregulated, even though the point of deregulating insurance was supposed to make it cheaper (at least, that is what the politicians told people).

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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Jackson50 on 22 October 2008
akuma587 said:

You can thank the GOP for taking away many of the regulations that were there to protect people away, such as the ability of insurers to discriminate in who they will take as heavily as they can now.  You can also thank the GOP for deregulating insurance rates, which have significantly risen in every state after those rates were deregulated, even though the point of deregulating insurance was supposed to make it cheaper (at least, that is what the politicians told people).

Some people do not grasp that healthcare does not work like most markets. Honestly, have you ever heard of anyone choosing a doctor because the doctor was having a discount or had the best prices? No, it is an entirely different beast that requires a different solution.

 



Final-Fan on 22 October 2008

What?? I clip coupons for health care all the time!



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steven787 on 23 October 2008
Jackson50 said:
akuma587 said:

You can thank the GOP for taking away many of the regulations that were there to protect people away, such as the ability of insurers to discriminate in who they will take as heavily as they can now.  You can also thank the GOP for deregulating insurance rates, which have significantly risen in every state after those rates were deregulated, even though the point of deregulating insurance was supposed to make it cheaper (at least, that is what the politicians told people).

Some people do not grasp that healthcare does not work like most markets. Honestly, have you ever heard of anyone choosing a doctor because the doctor was having a discount or had the best prices? No, it is an entirely different beast that requires a different solution.

 

Maybe we don't see that because they're can't advertise in a way that competes with pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies... basically creating an oligopoly where much of the money spent on health care does not go to doctors and health care professionals; instead it goes to corporations that are in cahoots with the insurance companies and your local congressman - which grew out of outsourcing and a government encouraged program to get Americans covered by private health insurance.  They created a fascist/corporatist system where the government and several large companies got to pick the insurance companies that would get lucky.  Just like now they pick banks, who lost the most, to save.  This isn't free market or natural market health care.  This is people, who aren't healing people, abusing a the system to make money.

It's not just for the money. No? It's for a shit-load of money.

Give me paw.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

steven787 on 23 October 2008

It makes me so angry. Argh!



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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akuma587 on 23 October 2008
Jackson50 said:
akuma587 said:

You can thank the GOP for taking away many of the regulations that were there to protect people away, such as the ability of insurers to discriminate in who they will take as heavily as they can now.  You can also thank the GOP for deregulating insurance rates, which have significantly risen in every state after those rates were deregulated, even though the point of deregulating insurance was supposed to make it cheaper (at least, that is what the politicians told people).

Some people do not grasp that healthcare does not work like most markets. Honestly, have you ever heard of anyone choosing a doctor because the doctor was having a discount or had the best prices? No, it is an entirely different beast that requires a different solution.

 

Actually, these days I do hear about a lot of people going to cheaper clinics and such to save money or because their insurance (or lack thereof, unless you have a load of cash in your hand they will tell you to walk out the door) doesn't allow them to go to any good doctors.

And a lot of insurance companies, HMO's for instance, tell you WHICH doctors you can see and which you can't.  And doctors will discriminate to based on what kind of insurance you have.  Its like having all the costs of socialized medicine (unnecessary barriers, uneven treatment) without any of the benefits!  Its absurd!



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Jackson50 on 23 October 2008

They are doing it out of necessity and not choice. I meant that if given the choice, consumers do not seek out lower cost alternatives when making medical decisions. If someone required an angioplasty and saw that Dr. Brown was having a 50% sale for angioplasties would they go to him? I highly doubt it. This is why health care prices do not decrease as most prices would in a normal market...consumers do not shop for value. It seems the best option is to have a single entity negotiate the prices and so on.



TheRealMafoo on 23 October 2008
Jackson50 said:
They are doing it out of necessity and not choice. I meant that if given the choice, consumers do not seek out lower cost alternatives when making medical decisions. If someone required an angioplasty and saw that Dr. Brown was having a 50% sale for angioplasties would they go to him? I highly doubt it. This is why health care prices do not decrease as most prices would in a normal market...consumers do not shop for value. It seems the best option is to have a single entity negotiate the prices and so on.

 

This is why medical treatment that is not covered under insurance has done so much better. Today, if I want Lasik, it's 4 times as cheap, far better, safer, and readily available. 

This is due to competition, people do shop when they want there eyes fixed. To bad we can't apply this to the rest of the medical industry.

 



steven787 on 23 October 2008

My employer offers dental coverage for $22 every other week. It's pretty good coverage. But it's got a $250 deductable on EACH treatment and a limit of $1250 in deductables and a cap of $5000. Copays are $25 for a visit, $50 for a full set of xrays...

I didn't get it, and here's why: (w/o ins|what I pay w/ins.)

I have a dental problem.
Two exams and one set of xrays ($350/$100).
1 tooth surgically extracted ($450/$250).
1 tooth extracted the old fashion way ($220/$250).
3 fillings ($210*3/$175*3)
Payments out of pay check for 1 year ($0/$572) (I've been working for 9 years)

3 hours of pretty standard dental work. $1650 or $1125+weekly, after one year I'm already paying more if I have insurance. It's fucking insane.

It's pretty much the same for medical coverage, except more expensive and if you get really sick there's some more protection... unless you get REALLY sick, then they cut you loose.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Jackson50 on 23 October 2008

I have always found Canada's health system highly intriguing. There is nothing wrong with looking to our northern friends for a possible solution.