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Forums - General Discussion - Do you know JOE THE PLUMBER?

akuma587 said:
tokilamockingbrd said:
Final-Fan said:
tokilamockingbrd said:
I wish the left would not resort to charater assination at all times. This guy is not a politician, his personal life needs to be left alone.

You wish the LEFT wouldn't resort to character assassination all the time?  Did you sleep through the 2004 campaign?  Are you sleeping through THIS campaign? 

 

 Clarence Thomas(the worst ever imo), Robert Bork, Sarah Palin, Newt Ginrich, George Bush.... Joe the Plummer... Yes it does go both ways. So it does not bother me too much. Joe Whateverhisnameis is not a politician, they should leave him alone. If the left starts building hate for this guy he is not gonna have 50 body guards like politicians do... at best he will get a cop car parked out front of his house...

The only person on the left I have seen attempts against his charater this election cycle is Barack himself. I do not like it, it incites wackos, and indangers the person being demonized. The person I feel has been attacked the worse this election is SP... it is really redic... It is mainly coming from hollywood, but it is truly sad.

04 was bad both ways, I really did not like what Swiftboat did to John Kerry.

But as I stated above, Clarence Thomas was the worst... ever. They had people actually LIE to try and make him look like a criminal. I was young at the time, and even then I could see through it.

Basically, I should have said both sides do it, the left just does it more. (both are just as at fault)

Fuck Joe the Plumber.  That guy seems like a total douche bag, and I would kick him in the balls the first chance I got.

And get your character assassination accusations out of here if you are just going to ignore everything the GOP does.  What has McCain been trying to do to Obama this entire campaign (although McCain is only responsible for some of it, the GOP at large is responsible for more of it)?  And where do you think the term Swift Boat politics came from?

Hell, Karl Rove even assassinated another Republican's character (McCain), in 2000.

Don't make accusations if those accusations could just as easily be directed at the other party.

 

I can see the hate Joe the plumber campaign has already converted you.

I did acknowledge Barack has been attacked, did you miss that? And yes, Mccain was fucked over in 2000. Mccain brought it upon himself when he attacked the religious right. Stupid move, he learned his lesson this time around. Thus the pandering to the right. There are more examples of the left doing it to the right, than the right doing it to the left. You do not see the republicans treating Pelosi like the dems treated Ginrich do you? The reps did not treat Ginsberg like the left treated Thomas. Clinton was treated poorly... but he did lie under oath... he kinda did give people a reason to kick him in the balls. Bush, the left pissed all over him before 9/11 and Iraq. Now he may deserve it, but he never got a fair shake. No one has attacked Biden (ok, someone has I am sure) as a person (maybe stupid gaffs), Palin? Don't argue that one. I could got on. I do agree that Obama is getting it too. And I said that already. But it is far from even.

 



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

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tokilamockingbrd said:

I can see the hate Joe the plumber campaign has already converted you.

I did acknowledge Barack has been attacked, did you miss that? And yes, Mccain was fucked over in 2000. Mccain brought it upon himself when he attacked the religious right. Stupid move, he learned his lesson this time around. Thus the pandering to the right. There are more examples of the left doing it to the right, than the right doing it to the left. You do not see the republicans treating Pelosi like the dems treated Ginrich do you? The reps did not treat Ginsberg like the left treated Thomas. Clinton was treated poorly... but he did lie under oath... he kinda did give people a reason to kick him in the balls. Bush, the left pissed all over him before 9/11 and Iraq. Now he may deserve it, but he never got a fair shake. No one has attacked Biden (ok, someone has I am sure) as a person (maybe stupid gaffs), Palin? Don't argue that one. I could got on. I do agree that Obama is getting it too. And I said that already. But it is far from even.

 

No, it was one Youtube video that converted me.  The guy just looks like an ass.  He looks like the kind of guy who would go bitch to Barack about paying his taxes and then go home and beat his wife on his way back from cheating on her.

I hate smug people more than anybody else, and the guy looks smug as hell.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Character assassination is an intentional attempt to influence the portrayal or reputation of a particular person, whether living or a historical personage, in such a way as to cause others to develop an extremely negative, unethical or unappealing perception of him or her. By its nature, it involves deliberate exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person

 

Ok. So Joe the Plumber asks Obama whether his tax plan will effect his attempt to buy his business that makes 250,000 a year. Joe's cause gets taken up by McCain, who cites him almost 20 times at a debate and at a Philadelphia rally shouts "Joe's the Man!" and has the crowd chant his name. 

So when the media check's up on Joe, they discover that he's an unlicensed plumber who owes back taxes and works for a company of 2 people that doesn't even make that much money... and that he votes Republican.

 

where exactly is the "left wing media" assassinating his character through deliberate exaggeration or manipulation of facts? Do you want them to write stories about how "Joe the Plumber" has become a national figure after the debates, but then go out of their way to keep Joe's circumstances out of the story just so it doesn't seem bad?



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

akuma587 said:
tokilamockingbrd said:
Final-Fan said:
tokilamockingbrd said:
I wish the left would not resort to charater assination at all times. This guy is not a politician, his personal life needs to be left alone.
You wish the LEFT wouldn't resort to character assassination all the time?  Did you sleep through the 2004 campaign?  Are you sleeping through THIS campaign?
Clarence Thomas(the worst ever imo), Robert Bork, Sarah Palin, Newt Ginrich, George Bush.... Joe the Plummer... Yes it does go both ways. So it does not bother me too much. Joe Whateverhisnameis is not a politician, they should leave him alone. If the left starts building hate for this guy he is not gonna have 50 body guards like politicians do... at best he will get a cop car parked out front of his house...

The only person on the left I have seen attempts against his charater this election cycle is Barack himself. I do not like it, it incites wackos, and indangers the person being demonized. The person I feel has been attacked the worse this election is SP... it is really redic... It is mainly coming from hollywood, but it is truly sad.

04 was bad both ways, I really did not like what Swiftboat did to John Kerry.

But as I stated above, Clarence Thomas was the worst... ever. They had people actually LIE to try and make him look like a criminal. I was young at the time, and even then I could see through it.

Basically, I should have said both sides do it, the left just does it more. (both are just as at fault)
Fuck Joe the Plumber.  That guy seems like a total douche bag, and I would kick him in the balls the first chance I got.

And get your character assassination accusations out of here if you are just going to ignore everything the GOP does.  What has McCain been trying to do to Obama this entire campaign (although McCain is only responsible for some of it, the GOP at large is responsible for more of it)?  And where do you think the term Swift Boat politics came from?

Hell, Karl Rove even assassinated another Republican's character (McCain), in 2000.

Don't make accusations if those accusations could just as easily be directed at the other party.

I see tokilamockingbrd got to it first, but I have to say this: 

I disagree with him, but COME ON.  He even MENTIONED the Swift boat stuff in his post -- what the hell more do you want?

But since I DO disagree:  the fact that you had to go all the way back to Bork just proves how wrong you are.  Not all Republicans but many have made a fucking ART out of character assassination in the past decade.  If I recall correctly they managed to make a Senator named Max Cleland, a triple amputee Vietnam vet (where he lost the limbs), lose an election by questioning his patriotism!  (2002)

Not all Republicans are participating in this -- until this election I would never have suspected it of John McCain, who called the above campaign "reprehensible". 

We all lived through the late '90s, right?  Clinton may have been fooling around, but MY GOD.  Impeachment?  Seriously.  Ken Starr, need I say more? 

You say that "04 was bad both ways".  What did Democrats do that was even REMOTELY comparable to the crap that got pulled on Kerry?  You may have something truly appalling, I don't pretend I'm an expert here.  The ony attacks I recall were stuff that turned out to be true or worse -- Iraq (runup to, abuse of prisoners in), Guantanamo/etc., warrantless wiretapping etc. (no, wait, that news got DELAYED until after the election!), and so on. 

"Both sides do it, but the right does it way more."  <-- fixed



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

"Palin? Don't argue that one."

PALIN? The only "attacking" that's been done is Couric asking her what newspaper she reads, and her saying "ALL OF THEM". She attacked herself. Plus Troopergate.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Plumber/Six-Pack '08!



akuma587 said:
tokilamockingbrd said:
Final-Fan said:
tokilamockingbrd said:
I wish the left would not resort to charater assination at all times. This guy is not a politician, his personal life needs to be left alone.

You wish the LEFT wouldn't resort to character assassination all the time?  Did you sleep through the 2004 campaign?  Are you sleeping through THIS campaign? 

 

 Clarence Thomas(the worst ever imo), Robert Bork, Sarah Palin, Newt Ginrich, George Bush.... Joe the Plummer... Yes it does go both ways. So it does not bother me too much. Joe Whateverhisnameis is not a politician, they should leave him alone. If the left starts building hate for this guy he is not gonna have 50 body guards like politicians do... at best he will get a cop car parked out front of his house...

The only person on the left I have seen attempts against his charater this election cycle is Barack himself. I do not like it, it incites wackos, and indangers the person being demonized. The person I feel has been attacked the worse this election is SP... it is really redic... It is mainly coming from hollywood, but it is truly sad.

04 was bad both ways, I really did not like what Swiftboat did to John Kerry.

But as I stated above, Clarence Thomas was the worst... ever. They had people actually LIE to try and make him look like a criminal. I was young at the time, and even then I could see through it.

Basically, I should have said both sides do it, the left just does it more. (both are just as at fault)

Fuck Joe the Plumber.  That guy seems like a total douche bag, and I would kick him in the balls the first chance I got.

And get your character assassination accusations out of here if you are just going to ignore everything the GOP does.  What has McCain been trying to do to Obama this entire campaign (although McCain is only responsible for some of it, the GOP at large is responsible for more of it)?  And where do you think the term Swift Boat politics came from?

Hell, Karl Rove even assassinated another Republican's character (McCain), in 2000.

Don't make accusations if those accusations could just as easily be directed at the other party.

 

More 527s were democratic in that campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group#Top_Twenty_Federally_Focused_and_State-Focused_527_groups.2C_2004_election_cycle

Character Assassanation tactics in American politics existed well before the republican party even existed.  Lincoln being a prominant target of it actually.

To blame the republicans for this stuff alone is silly... as they aren't really any more to blame.  Obama has less attack adds precentage wise.  But more per volume... and a lot that contradict his own polcies.

 



^ More 527s =/= more despicable campaign. Plus, on the general topic of "left/right character assassination", you have to count talk radio.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
^ More 527s =/= more despicable campaign. Plus, on the general topic of "left/right character assassination", you have to count talk radio.

Which is why i'd consider it "fair" since there are more conservatives on radio, and more liberals on TV.

Though all and all actually counting 527s and crap as part of "character assassnation" plans of the actual politicians is BS if you ask me since they don't actually have anything to do with the campaigns.

I mean if somebody kills my boss so i can get a promotion, if i don't know the person or had nothing to do with it.  I don't get charged for a crime/blamed for anything.

 

Where "Swiftboating" came from seemed like a refrence to 527s in general.  Or atleast negative ones.  Which had been around a LONG time.  Just that one vs Kerry was the most successful.  Partially because of the Media being way too "ratings grabbing".

Those adds wouldn't of been shit if the media didn't do big storys like "Is it true!  We haven't done any research yet but hey lets throw it out there!"



it is not charater assination to call Obama a socialist becuase he is, it is not c a to ask about his relationship with Ayres, or White, or Rezco, Acorn.

Do you think that if McCain had help his first campaign fundraiser in the home of an Abortion clinic bomber he would be running for pres?

The c a I was reffering to in relation to Obama was calling him a Muslim Terrorist and things of that nature. McCain has done none of that, but people on the far right have. When I say far right I mean even more than Limbaugh and Hannity. Those two have attacked Obama, but using legimate topics (socialism, associations, and such)



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.