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Forums - Sony Discussion - How much space does MGS4 really use on the BluRay Disk?

frybread on 15 October 2008

The Blu Ray drive is slow, so developers have to put repeate textures in each level.  An example of this is R:FOM, which fills up the entire Blu Ray with the same data over and over. 

If the drive were faster, there'd be less need for space.



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Garnett on 15 October 2008
Spankey said:
bobobologna said:
Nidan said:

For those that don't remember, Originally the devs were hating on BluRay because the speed of the drive was too slow. I believe the MGS developers decided to place the same data in many different places on the BluRay disks to counter this (which in some way defeats the purpose of a larger media format).

So in light of many comments talking about the number of disks that would be needed if it was ever on XBOX, i would like to know does anyone know what the "real size" of the game really is?

Secondly does anyone know what size (or length in time) the video component of this game is now? (I am assuming that the video component is highly uncompressed due to the bluray specs and could be compressed if put onto DVD?)

 

..Expand....

 

No, they wouldn't need to repeat data because all the game data is copied to the HDD. I believe the entire game, minus the audio is copied to the HDD. That's why the game requires an install for each act. They couldn't fit the entire game into the 5 GB limit Sony has imposed. The disc is used to stream audio. One layer on the bluray disc contains the game data, which is copied to the HDD. The second layer contains the audio data which gets streamed to the console.

I would expect the game, ported to the XBox360, to be 3 discs.

Approximately 10 GB of game data (minus the audio). 5 GB initial install, with approximately a 1.5 GB install for acts 2-5 (assuming same data transfer rate as the initial install). Granted, the game could be uncompressed to the HDD, but I believe this isn't the case. Otherwise they should have just compressed the game data to fit into the 5 GB limit and not have installs for each act.

Then there's the prerendered cutscenes. I would believe that these would be streamed from the disc. I can't fathom why you would want to or have to copy them to the HDD. Maybe another gig for the prerendered cutscenes? Other than the big cutscene at the end of Act 3 (the 40 minute one), I can't really think of what other prerendered cutscenes there were, so I may be over- or under-estimating.

If the game really is 33 GB, then that leaves about 20 GB of uncompressed audio. Using a loseless codec would cut that in half. Maybe less. Using lossy compression may cut that by much more, maybe to 10% of the original? I'm not really sure how good compression techniques are at this stuff, so I'm really just guessing. So another 2 GB of audio data.

13-14 GB of data for the game using lossy audio compression. Taking into account the 6.8 (?) GB of data available on XBox360 game DVDs and the need to repeat some of the data, I would expect a 3 game disc. Maybe 4 discs.

Of course, my whole analysis could be flawed, but that's what I've got to offer on how "big" MGS4 is.

MS is not keen on mandatory HDD installs.

 

 

The 360 does not need mandatory HDD installs cause the 360 DVD drive is WAY faster than the Blue Ray,Which is the reason why a 360 SKU does not come with a HDD,I believe thats why MS didnt include HD-DVD built in cause it was too slow and they couldnt drop the price cause they would need a HDD for game installs.



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epsilon72 on 15 October 2008
Ender said:
prlatino86 said:
Theres a reason for uncompressed audio, mainly for audiophiles as myself, the sound quality is so much higher. Hence why I love Blu Ray over DVDs. DVDs have to compress a lot of audio, and when i compare between the same movie on DVD and Blu Ray, the difference is impressive.

But yes, uncompressed audio, im VERY much a fan of, haha.

 

If you were a true audiphile you'd know this isn't true.  Depending on the format and level of compression it can pysically  impossible for you to hear a difference.  I highly doubt could tell the difference in a double blind test.

Especially for movie/videogame audio.  I can tell the difference between some lossy formats and lossless with music fairly easily....but with sound effect type stuff?  Much harder. (for me at least)

 



theprof00 on 15 October 2008

there....must....be...some.way to........get...this .on..........x......box3............60....



Jordahn on 15 October 2008
Garnett said:
Spankey said:

No, they wouldn't need to repeat data because all the game data is copied to the HDD. I believe the entire game, minus the audio is copied to the HDD. That's why the game requires an install for each act. They couldn't fit the entire game into the 5 GB limit Sony has imposed. The disc is used to stream audio. One layer on the bluray disc contains the game data, which is copied to the HDD. The second layer contains the audio data which gets streamed to the console.

I would expect the game, ported to the XBox360, to be 3 discs.

Approximately 10 GB of game data (minus the audio). 5 GB initial install, with approximately a 1.5 GB install for acts 2-5 (assuming same data transfer rate as the initial install). Granted, the game could be uncompressed to the HDD, but I believe this isn't the case. Otherwise they should have just compressed the game data to fit into the 5 GB limit and not have installs for each act.

Then there's the prerendered cutscenes. I would believe that these would be streamed from the disc. I can't fathom why you would want to or have to copy them to the HDD. Maybe another gig for the prerendered cutscenes? Other than the big cutscene at the end of Act 3 (the 40 minute one), I can't really think of what other prerendered cutscenes there were, so I may be over- or under-estimating.

If the game really is 33 GB, then that leaves about 20 GB of uncompressed audio. Using a loseless codec would cut that in half. Maybe less. Using lossy compression may cut that by much more, maybe to 10% of the original? I'm not really sure how good compression techniques are at this stuff, so I'm really just guessing. So another 2 GB of audio data.

13-14 GB of data for the game using lossy audio compression. Taking into account the 6.8 (?) GB of data available on XBox360 game DVDs and the need to repeat some of the data, I would expect a 3 game disc. Maybe 4 discs.

Of course, my whole analysis could be flawed, but that's what I've got to offer on how "big" MGS4 is.

bobobologna said:
Nidan said:

For those that don't remember, Originally the devs were hating on BluRay because the speed of the drive was too slow. I believe the MGS developers decided to place the same data in many different places on the BluRay disks to counter this (which in some way defeats the purpose of a larger media format).

So in light of many comments talking about the number of disks that would be needed if it was ever on XBOX, i would like to know does anyone know what the "real size" of the game really is?

Secondly does anyone know what size (or length in time) the video component of this game is now? (I am assuming that the video component is highly uncompressed due to the bluray specs and could be compressed if put onto DVD?)

 

..Expand....

MS is not keen on mandatory HDD installs.

 

 

The 360 does not need mandatory HDD installs cause the 360 DVD drive is WAY faster than the Blue Ray,Which is the reason why a 360 SKU does not come with a HDD,I believe thats why MS didnt include HD-DVD built in cause it was too slow and they couldnt drop the price cause they would need a HDD for game installs.

 

But data still needs to be copied/repeated on multiple discs.  So if installing that data on an HDD would help as bobobologna pointed out to prevent the coping/repeating of data on DVD's to minimize the number of DVD's required, this still would be a problem with some 360 SKU's not having an HDD.



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epsilon72 on 15 October 2008
theprof00 said:
there....must....be...some.way to........get...this .on..........x......box3............60....

1)Buy MGS4 for the PS3

2)Put disk in Xbox 360

3)???

4)Profit!!

 



theprof00 on 15 October 2008

lol^
The serious cat is especially funny. This is a joke, a legitimate question to see at least how many disks it would take so that then, informed by the facts, one can make a better judgement about whether the mgs4on360 rumor is legitimate....



Ail on 15 October 2008
bobobologna said:
Nidan said:

For those that don't remember, Originally the devs were hating on BluRay because the speed of the drive was too slow. I believe the MGS developers decided to place the same data in many different places on the BluRay disks to counter this (which in some way defeats the purpose of a larger media format).

So in light of many comments talking about the number of disks that would be needed if it was ever on XBOX, i would like to know does anyone know what the "real size" of the game really is?

Secondly does anyone know what size (or length in time) the video component of this game is now? (I am assuming that the video component is highly uncompressed due to the bluray specs and could be compressed if put onto DVD?)

 

..Expand....

 

No, they wouldn't need to repeat data because all the game data is copied to the HDD. I believe the entire game, minus the audio is copied to the HDD. That's why the game requires an install for each act. They couldn't fit the entire game into the 5 GB limit Sony has imposed. The disc is used to stream audio. One layer on the bluray disc contains the game data, which is copied to the HDD. The second layer contains the audio data which gets streamed to the console.

I would expect the game, ported to the XBox360, to be 3 discs.

Approximately 10 GB of game data (minus the audio). 5 GB initial install, with approximately a 1.5 GB install for acts 2-5 (assuming same data transfer rate as the initial install). Granted, the game could be uncompressed to the HDD, but I believe this isn't the case. Otherwise they should have just compressed the game data to fit into the 5 GB limit and not have installs for each act.

Then there's the prerendered cutscenes. I would believe that these would be streamed from the disc. I can't fathom why you would want to or have to copy them to the HDD. Maybe another gig for the prerendered cutscenes? Other than the big cutscene at the end of Act 3 (the 40 minute one), I can't really think of what other prerendered cutscenes there were, so I may be over- or under-estimating.

If the game really is 33 GB, then that leaves about 20 GB of uncompressed audio. Using a loseless codec would cut that in half. Maybe less. Using lossy compression may cut that by much more, maybe to 10% of the original? I'm not really sure how good compression techniques are at this stuff, so I'm really just guessing. So another 2 GB of audio data.

13-14 GB of data for the game using lossy audio compression. Taking into account the 6.8 (?) GB of data available on XBox360 game DVDs and the need to repeat some of the data, I would expect a 3 game disc. Maybe 4 discs.

Of course, my whole analysis could be flawed, but that's what I've got to offer on how "big" MGS4 is.

Sure they would have to repeat the game data on every disk due to no HDD in some 360 SKUs which would mean no install  and Microsoft has so far required every 360 game to support that at least for their offline mode......

Another issue is that I believe the licencing price for 360 games is affected by the number of discs a game has. The more disks, the bigger share MSFT takes, they do this to prevent games having multiple discs switch which would make the 360 look bad compared to the PS3.

MS would have to change this kind of policy for MGS4 ( and I can't hear publishers bitch like mad if they changed it just for Konami lol).

 

Bottom line though is a port is very unlikely if MS requires of the game that it works on SKUs with no HDD..

If you can do a 5GB install or so though, the port woudn't be that hard...



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FJ-Warez on 15 October 2008

So far there is no real evidence of a full 50 gb game and the more common estimates pulls the 30 gb figure...

Funny, Onyxmeth shows an interesting piece, all cutscenes are around 10 gb of data(Maybe recorded from the game), but a few months ago any MGS or any Sony fan claimed that everything was in-game, so probably the 30 Gbs are full of high quality audio + the game...



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elgefe02 on 15 October 2008
kingofwale said:
In an equally equivalent question at this point... how many UMD will it take for MGS4?

 

In an equally equivalent question at this point... how many Wii Discs will it take for MGS4?



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