By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - To all believers on this site...

Appoles said:

many ancient kingdoms didn't like to record military failures and the like

Timmah! said:

what great interest did these other nations have of recording the history of their neighbors

Timmah:

Its obvious from looking at history that ancient people were interested in their neighbors.  In ancient times, similar to today's times, leaders and the general population were greatly interested in what was going on in the rest of the world.  People would gather to hear travelers and traders tell their stories, leaders would request information from the affairs of other nations.  Not only was this of interest for entertainment purposes, but it was also of interest for defense purposes.  If your neighbor was invaded by an army you want to know who these invaders are, what their intentions are, and what their charactersistics are, just in case your next (or if you plan on doing some conquering yourself).

Simple familiarization with historical records makes it obvious that the ancients knew and sought information about the world around them.

Appolse:

Very true, ancient people, just like people today, liked to make events more favorable to them.  In many cases (such as Egypt and the Hittites draw and eventual peace treaty) both sides claimed victory.  The Egyptians mentioned eliminating a Hittite chariot unit forced the Hittite to accept peace while the Hittites said a chariot unit's bravery scared the Egyptians into accepting peace.

However, these events were recorded and it was in great interest for other nations to record information that was detremental to their competitors, not to mention fantastical stories.  We have countless stories from ancient story tellers on perhaps-truthful events (Atlantis and the Trojan War are prime examples), and an actual event that made the Nile run red and killed over a hundred thousand Egyptian children would have been heavily told in stories and kept in records.  Historians would be stumbling over details of the story in historical records and archeological finds.

But there are no records.  The many traders and travelers to and from Egypt didn't spread the story, the Egyptians didn't keep the story in any form.  It doesnt take much to think that this story was a huge fabrication from the Hebrews.

Thats not to mention that the Egyptians kept great records, even of events that they didn't like.  Ahmotep, for example, was hated throughout all of Egypt (he changed the religion and fired the priest class) and everything he did in his rule was destroyed after his death, but there are still countless records of him.



Around the Network
Timmah! said:
ManusJustus said:
A lot of these talking points remind me of UFO Encounters on the History Channel.

That was both a degrading comment, and trolling. You are clearly insinuating that those of us who believe in God are crazy or fools. This is not a way to effectively get your point across and is a completely unnecessary comment.

Please at least try to respect somebody else's beliefs. Thanks.

That was both a degrading comment, and trolling. You are clearly insinuating that those who believe in UFO's are crazy or fools. This is not a way to effectively get your point across and is a completely unnecessary comment.

Please at least try to respect somebody else's beliefs. Thanks.



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

Sri Lumpa said:
Timmah! said:
ManusJustus said:
A lot of these talking points remind me of UFO Encounters on the History Channel.

That was both a degrading comment, and trolling. You are clearly insinuating that those of us who believe in God are crazy or fools. This is not a way to effectively get your point across and is a completely unnecessary comment.

Please at least try to respect somebody else's beliefs. Thanks.

That was both a degrading comment, and trolling. You are clearly insinuating that those who believe in UFO's are crazy or fools. This is not a way to effectively get your point across and is a completely unnecessary comment.

Please at least try to respect somebody else's beliefs. Thanks.

 



ManusJustus said:

Appoles said:

many ancient kingdoms didn't like to record military failures and the like

Timmah! said:

what great interest did these other nations have of recording the history of their neighbors

Timmah:

Its obvious from looking at history that ancient people were interested in their neighbors.  In ancient times, similar to today's times, leaders and the general population were greatly interested in what was going on in the rest of the world.  People would gather to hear travelers and traders tell their stories, leaders would request information from the affairs of other nations.  Not only was this of interest for entertainment purposes, but it was also of interest for defense purposes.  If your neighbor was invaded by an army you want to know who these invaders are, what their intentions are, and what their charactersistics are, just in case your next (or if you plan on doing some conquering yourself).

Simple familiarization with historical records makes it obvious that the ancients knew and sought information about the world around them.

Appolse:

Very true, ancient people, just like people today, liked to make events more favorable to them.  In many cases (such as Egypt and the Hittites draw and eventual peace treaty) both sides claimed victory.  The Egyptians mentioned eliminating a Hittite chariot unit forced the Hittite to accept peace while the Hittites said a chariot unit's bravery scared the Egyptians into accepting peace.

However, these events were recorded and it was in great interest for other nations to record information that was detremental to their competitors, not to mention fantastical stories.  We have countless stories from ancient story tellers on perhaps-truthful events (Atlantis and the Trojan War are prime examples), and an actual event that made the Nile run red and killed over a hundred thousand Egyptian children would have been heavily told in stories and kept in records.  Historians would be stumbling over details of the story in historical records and archeological finds.

But there are no records.  The many traders and travelers to and from Egypt didn't spread the story, the Egyptians didn't keep the story in any form.  It doesnt take much to think that this story was a huge fabrication from the Hebrews.

Thats not to mention that the Egyptians kept great records, even of events that they didn't like.  Ahmotep, for example, was hated throughout all of Egypt (he changed the religion and fired the priest class) and everything he did in his rule was destroyed after his death, but there are still countless records of him.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_it_really_Rameses_II_who_was_the_Pharaoh_when_the_Exodus_happened

Doing any simple google search reveals it wasn't actually Rameses II who was Pharaoh, and that it was most likely Adikam.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2007/02/thera-eruption-blowing-top-off-egyptian.html

That's quite amusing as well, apparently there was a massive eruption geologists know about that also is not recorded, no idea how accurate that is though!



So the main reasons why believers, believe is due to personal experiences and not believing in the science. Anymore?



Around the Network

Why not?



There was no Adikam or Malul.  Wikipedia has a nice list of pharoahs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharaohs , you could scavenge through to look for matches for your belief .  There was a pharoah named Pepi II who ruled Egypt for 96 years, but he had no sons named Akidam, but that was over a thousand years before biblical historians (even the religious blog you linked) and academic historians say Moses and the Hebrews settled Israel around 1200 BC.  We know from historical records (including the Armana Letters before) that the Canaanites were living Israel without Hebrew invaders or migrants to atleast 1300 BC.

The more realistic answer to the story of Moses comes from looking at other stories at that time.  Bablyonian and other cultures had "Moses' stories of their own long before the Hebrews, and the Hebrews borrowed several other stories from Babylonians such as the Epic of Gilgamesh (Great Glood) and the Enuma Elish (Creation).

Moses' birth legend is in many respects similar to the 7th century BCE Neo-Assyrian version of the birth of the king Sargon of Akkad in the 24th century BCE who, being born of modest means, was set in the Euphrates river in a basket of bulrushes and discovered by a member of the Akkadian royalty who reared him as their own. Professor Eric H. Cline refers to the story of the birth of Moses as a 'foundation myth', similar to those of Sargon, Cyrus the Great and Romulus and Remus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses



To All Beleivers:

If you are interested in the story of Moses, you may want to look into Akhenaten http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten

Akhenaten was the pharoah who, in 1350 BC changed the religion in Egypt from polytheism to a monotheistic one that only worshipped Aten, the god of the solar disk (or universe).  Was Moses a rebelious follower of Aten who spread his ideas about religion elsewhere?  Did Akhenaten's idea on religion influence the Hubiru (Hebrew)  nomads that historical texts mention lived in the desert near moder day Israel?

Its a good possibility, considering that it shortly after Akhenaten's death that the Hebrews moved into Philistine and Canaan to create the nation of Israel with their new type of religion.



Hrmm... pethîy, ’eviyl, kecîyl, lûwts, nâbâl?

Think about this article. http://www.ou.org/chagim/pesach/whenex.htm



Its impossible for the Exodus to occure before 1350 BC, the Amarna letters talk about Canaan and make no mention of Hebrews invading Canaan or the state of Israel.