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Forums - General - How to reduce health costs by 90%

TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:

I trust democratic governments over corporations and dictatorships, because a democratic government answers to me.

 

You don't think corporations answer to you? I have very little control over my government (1 vote). I have massive control over my corporations (I give them my business, or I don't).

And yes, the US is not the Deomcracy I want it to be. Not because we have never been there, but because we keep moving away from what made it great. National heathcare is one step farther away from what it once was.

 Socializing health care is in no way, shape, or form moving away from being a democracy. We have also never been a democracy. The idea was tossed out the window when someone realized people are too stupid to fully govern themselves. That train of thought is the exact reason we have the electoral college.

 I have thought of a massive problem with your system though. Trvelling between cities and states would cause countless deaths. If I suffer a heart attack, break my leg, or any number of other health emergencies in a city without my paricular chain of McHospotals what happens? Fully privatizing health care would be dsiasterous.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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Again RealMafoo. You're just stating an ideology. You believe that corporations are superior to government. But as we see again and again.Outside of consumer goods (which still require government regulation to ensure consumer safety), this is rarely the case.




I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

Gnizmo said:
TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:

I trust democratic governments over corporations and dictatorships, because a democratic government answers to me.

 

You don't think corporations answer to you? I have very little control over my government (1 vote). I have massive control over my corporations (I give them my business, or I don't).

And yes, the US is not the Deomcracy I want it to be. Not because we have never been there, but because we keep moving away from what made it great. National heathcare is one step farther away from what it once was.

 Socializing health care is in no way, shape, or form moving away from being a democracy. We have also never been a democracy. The idea was tossed out the window when someone realized people are too stupid to fully govern themselves. That train of thought is the exact reason we have the electoral college.

 I have thought of a massive problem with your system though. Trvelling between cities and states would cause countless deaths. If I suffer a heart attack, break my leg, or any number of other health emergencies in a city without my paricular chain of McHospotals what happens? Fully privatizing health care would be dsiasterous.

Actually the reason we have the electoral college is protecting smaller states from bigger ones, rural areas from urban ones... and slavery.

Which really was a subset of protecting smaller states from bigger ones.

Since the small states had more slaves... who were counted a 2/3rds of a vote for the electoral college.

Nobody actually wanted to give the slaves an actual 2/3rds of a vote for anything, cause then slavery wouldn't exist.  While giving slave owners direct credit over there slaves votes would give them well too much power... compared to the other rich men in the south.



TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:

I trust democratic governments over corporations and dictatorships, because a democratic government answers to me.

 

You don't think corporations answer to you? I have very little control over my government (1 vote). I have massive control over my corporations (I give them my business, or I don't).

And yes, the US is not the Deomcracy I want it to be. Not because we have never been there, but because we keep moving away from what made it great. National heathcare is one step farther away from what it once was.

 

To most corporations 1 customer makes about as much difference as one vote.



I think people are moving away from the point, which is providing affordable healthcare. As Gnizmo said, socialising healthcare has very little to do with degrees of democracy.

Let me use Australia as an example as i worked in healthcare there for a bit. While i am by no means suggesting that our system is perfect, it works pretty well most of the time in the sense that no one can be refused healthcare and no one ends up incurring a debt because of health services rendered.

We have both private and public healthcare.

The public system is funded through taxes and the user pays nothing for either consultation, radiology, medicines and even services at home in certain situations. The public system is also responsible for all advanced medical training meaning that all doctors will spend a minimum of 6-7 years working in the system and many will continue to work in the system, at least part time, for their whole career. The problem is that there is always a battle to maintain adequate funding and staffing but this doesn't affect delivery of urgent or essential care, rather it means that waiting and waiting lists for non urgent care in certain fields can be prohibitive.

In the private sector the patient and/or their insurance company covers the bill. Private health insurance is not extremely expensive but is still beyond the reach of the poorer segments of the community. Patients who opt for private health care can still purchase medicines at a heavily subsidised cost provided the doctor prescribes a medicine that is on the health department schedule (which is fairly inclusive). Emergent care delivery in the private sector is probably no better than the public system but the advantage is that patients can rapidly gain access to treatment for non urgent care as well and don't have to deal with waiting lists for surgery and the like.

Care outside of the hospital systems is a little more complicated but nonetheless you always have the option of going to a hospital if you don't have the money to pay for a local doctor.



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TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:

I trust democratic governments over corporations and dictatorships, because a democratic government answers to me.

You don't think corporations answer to you? I have very little control over my government (1 vote). I have massive control over my corporations (I give them my business, or I don't).

And yes, the US is not the Deomcracy I want it to be. Not because we have never been there, but because we keep moving away from what made it great. National heathcare is one step farther away from what it once was.

You have a lot of control over your government.  That one vote you have and the one vote everybody else has means that the government has to answer to you.  If you and other Americans dont like what a politician is doing, then you get rid of him.

You have little to no control over corporations.  You have some control over what they sell, since they make more money if they make products that more people will buy, but you do not decide what their business practices are, where their money goes, or who the CEO of the company is.