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Forums - General - If The Election Were Held Today Who Would You Vote For:

Obama/Biden hands down. I was always leaning towards Obama but liked the old McCain from the 2000 primaries when he was an independent politician, but with him re-inventing himself to get elected and picking the trainwreck that is Sarah Palin, there is no way I could vote Republican.



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Jackson50 said:
I only disagreed with his assertion that Obama was THE most liberal senator. There is no doubt that Obama is a liberal, but THE most liberal...come on. That distinction would go to either Feingold or Sanders.

I also made that point earlier. If by some miracle Roe v Wade is overturned, the existing state laws would decide the legality. Certain states (WA and NY) would have abortion on demand; other states (CO and CA) would allow it in certain instances; and it would be illegal in most other states.

 

In 2007, he was #1.  2008 isn't over yet so he still holds the title.

They count votes on a wide range of issues, he just missed a bunch of votes.  Complaining about how its tallied is just kind of silly.  It would be like complaining that walks count against your batting average in baseball so you could get your average a bit higher.  They tally the numbers the same way every year, both in baseball and in this rating.



To Each Man, Responsibility

I do not wish to explain all of it in here, but here is a nice piece on why the National Journal's rankings are not truly representative of how ideological a congressman is:http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=08c25e0a-9b88-49a6-97f5-45114f3fff28

And as I provided earlier, here is a more thorough examination of how ideological a congressman is: http://voteview.com/sen110.htm



Rath said:
Kasz216 said:

McCain.

Obama's energy plan would greatly increase the Global Food Crisis due to his wreckless promises to increase Biofuels which the UN call "A crime path."


That... and McCains promise to stop ethanol subsidaries will help a lot of people globally.

The over 100 million people who can't afford food... is a really important deal to me.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2008/2008-04-28-03.asp

That outweighs the chance that McCain may put another Pro-Lifer on the Supreme Court.  I think McCain is smart enough to know that making abortions Illegal won't stop many if any abortions and will just make them more dangerous.

But if McCain pops his clogs (which I personally don't consider likely but it is possible that he could die considering he is 71) then you end up with Palin as president and she definately would try and make abortion illegal.

 

You know if you want to talk health, Obama could have a heart attack or stroke.  I say that because black people have a higher chance of that happening to them and Obama, if he were to be elected president, would have a very stressful life.  I realize he is in good shape but stress does contribute to heart problems.  It is about as likely to happen as McCain having heart problems I think.

 



McCain is not a normal 72 year old so the act. tables are not accurate on him. How many 72 year old men can keep the schedule he has running this campaign? Not many, most of them have trouble getting to McDonalds to drink coffee in the morning.



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

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Obama/Biden all the way for infinite amounts of reasons.

1.Holy sh*t, did I just read that someone actually thinks that Al Qaeda will overrun Iraq as soon as we leave? First off, let me remind people of something they obviously forgot.

We went in to Iraq not for Saddam Hussein, not for terrorist, not to stop Iran, but because Iraq was not cooperating with the UN inspectors. The world told us to wait, Bush provided "evidence" that ended up being complete bullsh*t, and here we are stuck in a "war" which really isn't a war at all. We had no reason there, we can't "win" anytime soon short of killing just about everyone, and the costs of this "war" are driving us in to debt.

People who think we are in Iraq right now because of the war on terror are morons, and theres really no other way to put it.

2. "Sarah Palin has foreign policy experience because she's close to Russia." UNMOTHERFUCKINGBELIEVABLE! You can't be that ignorant! I don't even mean that as an insult, I really don't believe anyone can believe that bullshit! Sarah Palin is the biggest joke EVER in a presidential race. Executive experience? You are going to let a random person with 2 years experience governing a state with less than 700,000 people take over the country in the biggest financial crisis since the great depression? That, I can honestly say, would be dumber than electing George W. Bush a second time, and that was pretty stupid.

3. Guns, abortion, gay marriage, blah blah blah. Why the hell can't people mind their own God damn business? The US government shouldn't be a damn tool to force your moral standards on other people. I hate that whole elections are turned around because "shes goes hunting" or "he supports gay marriage". So the fuck what? Who you choose in this election will effect many people worldwide, and in some cases (like you all who voted for Bush AGAIN in 04...and yes I do blame you all) can determine who dies or not. So whether or not you agree with those petty issues, at least have the courtesy to vote with more critical issues in mind.

4. Healthcare should not be an option. People should have the right to freedom, liberty, and health. Does that mean that people should stop being able to get varying levels of health depending on wealth? No. But very basic access to health monitoring and treatment for illness should be part of the American package. We sure as hell can afford it, but people are more worried about penny pinching than helping fellow Americans. That is sickening to me.

5. Lastly, Americans need to stop being so damn selfish. This isn't the era of farms, small towns, etc. We are entering a new age where we are all in the global economy, whether we want be or not. America isn't just our governing body, its also our investment. If you want America to keep providing you with the best opportunities to thrive and protect, you need to invest money and time to keep America running smoothly. THIS MEANS TAXES! Yes, we have to pay taxes, and we will have to pay more of them. People automatically start fussing once they hear that word, but the truth is the government is the only organization in the free market that isn't actively trying to make money (kinda). They are the regulators, and without them theres no way anyone can compete with these multi-billion dollar industries and stand up for the average joe. So we need to remove the lobbyist, infuse some more cash, and level out this corruption so we can trust our government again.



Jackson50 said:

I do not wish to explain all of it in here, but here is a nice piece on why the National Journal's rankings are not truly representative of how ideological a congressman is:http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=08c25e0a-9b88-49a6-97f5-45114f3fff28

And as I provided earlier, here is a more thorough examination of how ideological a congressman is: http://voteview.com/sen110.htm

 

TNR isn't exactly what I would call unbiased, and given what happened to Kerry with this label in '04 it would be no surprise they want to avoid giving it to Obama.

I did see your other link before, and the algorithm is interesting. 

The only problem is that Obama is still extremely liberal even in that algorithm.  So we have two reports, one of which is the basis for the "the most liberal" comment and one of which was found to support the opposition to the statement, and they both say he is very liberal leaning.

So what we've learned is that the original comment wasn't off the cuff and had a substantive basis even if some disagree with it and even those who disagree with it still think he is very liberal, just perhaps not the most liberal.

I think that about sums it up, let me know if I missed anything. Its not like liberalism equates to evil or anything, it's just a difference of opinion.  And my opinion happens to be very similar to Rocketpigs on this issue. Put simply we need someone who will cross the isle to get stuff done.  And with politicians I judge how they will perform once elected by looking at what they've done, not what they've said.

 

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
cwbys21 said:
Rath said:
Kasz216 said:

McCain.

Obama's energy plan would greatly increase the Global Food Crisis due to his wreckless promises to increase Biofuels which the UN call "A crime path."


That... and McCains promise to stop ethanol subsidaries will help a lot of people globally.

The over 100 million people who can't afford food... is a really important deal to me.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2008/2008-04-28-03.asp

That outweighs the chance that McCain may put another Pro-Lifer on the Supreme Court.  I think McCain is smart enough to know that making abortions Illegal won't stop many if any abortions and will just make them more dangerous.

But if McCain pops his clogs (which I personally don't consider likely but it is possible that he could die considering he is 71) then you end up with Palin as president and she definately would try and make abortion illegal.

 

You know if you want to talk health, Obama could have a heart attack or stroke.  I say that because black people have a higher chance of that happening to them and Obama, if he were to be elected president, would have a very stressful life.  I realize he is in good shape but stress does contribute to heart problems.  It is about as likely to happen as McCain having heart problems I think.


Actually I believe (though I am not certain) that the prevalence of heart dieseases in black people is more due to the fact that black people are more likely to be in a lower socioeconomic demographic than white people and as such are more likely to be exposed to risk factors. That wouldn't effect Obama.

Also thought this source was interesting.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4c6.html

Percentages were actually a bit higher than I expected.

 

Oh and you miss my point, I wouldn't care so much if Obama died as president as I don't think Biden would completely screw it up (though I don't like him much). However I think Palin would be about twice as bad (in my view) as G.W.Bush. If McCain had picked a decent VP candidate him dieing wouldn't really have worried me.



^ Obama smokes (or he did until recently) so I imagine that would be a risk factor.

^^I know TNR has an ideological bent, but even if they are partial to the left they can point out why that particular ranking scale is not accurate. I know Obama is a liberal. I believe he has asserted as much. I simply find it asinine when conservatives say Obama was THE most liberal senator. It simply is not true. You may say he is an ardent liberal, but he is not THE most liberal.



Be sure to watch the presidential debate on Sept. 26....

I'd vote for McCain/Palin.



"What have i done.? Is it too late to save me from this place? From the depths of the grave? We all are those .. who thought we were brave."