Ok I read the first post and it was really interesting, and I was excited to see where the thread was going to go. Then I read the second post and CKMLB brought up totally irelevant topic of Nintendo catering to only casuals and not hardcore gamers. That made me feel very depressed. I hope this thread overcame his attempt to bash the Wii for no reason and turn this into a flame thread.

I will now continue to read onward with fingers crossed and hope in my heart.

Non-gamers are being used for one purpose as far as i'm concerned, to gather confidence in these new devices in this industry to encourage other developers to use them for more interactive gaming. Once that happens, who cares if they get bored?

There are much more hardcore games coming to Wii than the GC so Ninty has done at least better than last gen.

I'm soooooooo getting tired of this same nonsense over and over and over and over and over.. *zip*... again... If people like to play with Nintendo games then let them play for gods sake and if you rather play with your 360 or PS3 for that matter, people should respect that too, instead of opening threads about the same "casual" issue again. It only brings out flaming discussions all the time and I'm kind of fed up with that.

I mean this in general not only to you Legend11.

Edit: It's a good thing Nintendo differs from the other companies and vice versa, would be a total waste if people wouldn't have any right to choose if the companies had all the same kind of games now would it?

Your list of third party games included a terrible game, a canceled game, and lesser versions of better exclusives or 360/PS3 multiplats.  His list is far better.

If it takes until the end of next year for this sudden onslaught of third party hardcore games, the momentum might very well have shifted back in PS3/360 direction and the companies will just switch back.  We'll see, though.

I think Legend11 made a great point that casuals might lose interest.  Will enough third party support be there for the Wii?  We'll see, but this situation is hardly like any other in videogame history, imo. 

Absolutely, that's possible Windbane, it's just extremely unlikely. That's never happened in history, even when the Nintendo 64 had the killer lineup including Goldeneye, Mario 64, and Ocarina of Time.

If the momentum shifted, sure, I agree the third parties would shift with it. But that's never happened before, ever, and it hasn't even come close to happening. We've had this conversation: I think that's possible, as there's a first time for everything, but very unlikely.  

Exactly, the N64 had what most would probably agree were the 'best' games from the fifth generation, at least from a hardcore standpoint, but Sony had SO many more games, they captured the bulk of the casual market. I think we all know how that turned out. Interesting how fans of each console cater their point of view to match the company PR line.

Honestly though, can we move beyond this hardcore/casual debate... I think we can all agree that this has long since ceased to be productive.

How come threads like this always degenerate into Sony fanboys flashing lists of largely comprised of Non-Exclusive/identical genre games to try and convince everyone it'll be alright for the PS3?

^^ your right some people just need to compare how long their list is :) , every console will have great games and every gamer has a different idea of what a great game is, I don´t know why but lately lots of Sony fans (you´re not all fanboys, we are not all Nintendo fanboys) seem to be a little defensive, maybe Nintendo fans should just leave them alone, who cares if Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft sell more systems than anybody else, just have fun  with what you like and let other people have fun with what they like...... or just bash each other to death, that seems to be what some of you like most...... just had a great Idea for a game "Super fanboy basharama" do you have what it takes to bash and flame your way to the top ??? there can only be one "King of all Fanboys "

Casuals can and will lose interest.

The question is, how long will it take? In the case of the NES, they ended up buying the NES in droves, then fizzled out on the SNES (12m less units sold of the SNES than the NES).

IMO, the Wii's casual 'novelty' appeal will probably last for most of the generation. The Wii lifespan will probably be 2 generations. Wii one will do great, start to falter, and then Wii2 is launched, that re-invigorates the Wii franchises, but doesn't reach the predicessors total sales.

Even though some devs have said they will focus on the Wii more, I fail to see the big-name IPs that have switched, Yes, maybe alot of smaller useless Japanese franchises, but in the US and Europe, most franchises are still strongly PS3/360. Because of this, alot of middlecore's that got PS2s might not pick up Wiis when their favorite software titles aren't there. There are alot of people, as said, that grew up on Mario, but there are even more that grew up on mid-90s Final Fantasies, Halos, GTAs, Grand Turismos, Resident Evils, and the rest, that once they look into a new system, might not consider the Wii for a first tier system.

The emphasis of casuals has also brought in atrocious tier ratios for the Wii as well. Although there's a huge difference between PS3 tier ratios, and X360 ratios, the fact is, if the Wii is supposed to be the #1 system, the tier ratios just aren't there. They are mimicing the DS and not the PS2. The PS2 and Xbox had ratios of 10:1, and the GC even had 8.5:1. Right now, the Wii is just at 2:1 in Japan, and 3:1 in the US (not including Wii Sports). That's pretty bad.