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Forums - General - PoliCHARTZ - Thread of U.S. Politics & the Presidential Election

Missle defense is a good idea, especially with russia getting ready to make their own. And the idea of isolationism is a bad idea. Its part of the reason Hitler had a good chance of winning WWII. The fact is, yes we need to decrease our military use abroad, but we still need to be a world leader. This means using our influence in a good way, leading by example, being in worthy conflicts. If we stay out, then russia has green light to do what it wants with georgia, chavez can move as he pleases, and so can iran. Limiting military use is all good, but we can't just close down all our options, especially with how threatining the world is becoming.

Second, we keep some troops and bases in those countries. They are not doing anything significant atm, and it gives us options if there is a significant threat from nations in that area. Haveing no bases there would be a bad idea.



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Aiemond said:
Missle defense is a good idea, especially with russia getting ready to make their own. And the idea of isolationism is a bad idea. Its part of the reason Hitler had a good chance of winning WWII. The fact is, yes we need to decrease our military use abroad, but we still need to be a world leader. This means using our influence in a good way, leading by example, being in worthy conflicts. If we stay out, then russia has green light to do what it wants with georgia, chavez can move as he pleases, and so can iran. Limiting military use is all good, but we can't just close down all our options, especially with how threatining the world is becoming.

Second, we keep some troops and bases in those countries. They are not doing anything significant atm, and it gives us options if there is a significant threat from nations in that area. Haveing no bases there would be a bad idea.

Seconded.  Sorry about not reading the other small biz part but I could not locate it and I had work to do so I put it off.  Anyway, I am for a strong military.  We need more troops and I would even vouch for a national implementation of mandatory service for a short time like Israel or China.  What is to say we get attacked by a nation with an opportunity to call up over 10 million while we would have to draft untrained people and put them on the front after 2 weeks.  People need training and discipline today due to the corrosion of ethics and personal responsibilty.

 



A strong military is important. I dont think we need mandatory service, and if there was a war where the draft was needed, I doubt that the American people would object. This type of war would be like a world war 3, which imo will not happen because it would escalate to a nuclear holocaust. And no one wants that.

Getting attacked by a military of 10 million (n korea or china only one i can think of atm) would be very, very odd. First, they have to get the troops here. Not gonna happen with any ease.



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So what branch of the military did you join, HG1989?



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Aiemond said:
halogamer1989 said:
steven787 said:
halogamer1989 said:
Read it and weep. Obama has put a stay on the order that has him putting up his birth certificates. The one he did put up on his site, btw, used a printer that was made this year and not '61.

Country is Headed to a Constitutional Crisis

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/06/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that Obama and Democratic National Committee [DNC] filed a Joint Motion for Protective Order to Stay Discovery Pending a Decision on the Motion to Dismiss (which was) filed on 09/24/08.

While legal, Berg stated he is “outraged as this is another attempt to hide the truth from the public; it is obvious that documents do not exist to prove that Obama is qualified to be President.” The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.

Their joint motion indicates a concerted effort to avoid the truth by attempting to delay the judicial process, although legal, by not resolving the issue presented: that is, whether Barack Obama meets the qualifications to be President.

It is obvious that Obama was born in Kenya and does not meet the “qualifications” to be President of the United States pursuant to our United States Constitution. Obama cannot produce a certified copy of his “Vault” [original long version] Birth Certificate from Hawaii because it does not exist.


http://www.obamacrimes.com/ Official website of Phillip Berg, Attorney at Law (I know the url smells of bias but the documents there are quite official).

 

His mother was a U.S. citizen, so he is automatically elidgible, just like McCain, who was born in Panama, or Goldwater who was born in Arizona before it was a state.

The birth certificate is a reprint, just like mine.  I have my original in a safe and a certified reprint from the state of Florida.  It says right on the front that it's a copy.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

     §338-13  Certified copies.  (a)  Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

     (b)  Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

     ( c )  Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

 

BTW, about McCain he was born in Panama.

"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

Which leads me to wonder why you are pushing one candidate's elegibility and not the other.


Is it his political alignment or his skin color?

This is pathetic.  McCain was born to a high-ranking admiral on a military base in US-leased land from Panama with 2 American parents.   Obama was most likely born in Kenya with 1 American mother and 1 Kenyan father.  The whole Kenyan side of his family said they saw him born.  Your attempts to label me as a racist are pathetic as you should see my other posts on that issue.  Do it again and I can assure you that the Report this Post button will be pressed.

 

You did not discuss the small biz post that i gave for you to look at. Also, I posted about the legality of Obama's citizenship and you did not really discuss it either. Is it because there is no answer? Anyways, this, again, is from the citizenship code detailing who is a citizen from birth. 1401. 1401 includes, but is not limited to the relevant part I am going to post and peopel with two citizen parents born on us soil. So, in this code they are equal.

Here it is, again:

Obama Citizenship (even if born in kenya):

http://law.onecle.com/uscode/8/1401.html

(g) "a person born outside the geographical limits of the United
States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an
alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to
the birth of such person, was physically present in the United
States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods
totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were
after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any
periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United
States, or periods of employment with the United States
Government or with an international organization as that term is
defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any
periods during which such citizen parent is physically present
abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of
the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed
Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States
Government or an international organization as defined in section
288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the
physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso
shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24,
1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its
present form on that date"

The provided part basically says that military service counts as "being in the US" for this exception

 

Now, it is common for people to want suits to be thrown out. Most of this is because of the hassle of litigation, such as time and money. Second, many nutty cases are thrown out. Being thrown out is a sign that a case has no merit or true evidence. The fact of the matter is, even if Obama is born in kenya, he is a citizen with equal stature as one born from two citizen parents in the US. A citizen at birth is a citizen at birth, there is no discrimination between the different stuations that allow it.

 

Halogamer, Aeimond's provides that code, I provided the Hawaiian code on reprints.  I can find more that say, it doesn't matter where a person is born, if the U.S. Government says he was born in the U.S. than he was born in the U.S.

The point of me bringing up McCain's birth, was not to show his ineligibility.  He is eligible because his parents were.

He was not born on a military base.  He was born in a military hospital, in a place that late became a military base.  But as I showed above, that has NOTHING to do with citizenship.

I don't see how his father being an Admiral or any other profession has to do with citizenship.  Does it make his father a better person than an 18 year old girl living in Hawaii?

As for racism, I didn't try to label you as a racist.

Since your position has no validity and Obama's is actually very similar to the other candidate's situation, I wanted to know which one.  If there is another motive, tell me what it is.

Since you used diminuitive language to compare Obama's parents to McCain's parents, I realized: I left out elitism. I'm an elitist, so don't be offended by that.

I think your reasoning is very flawed, as is McCain's.

You think there should be less government, but want more regulation on Wall Street, government military training for all, more complicated tax codes, more use of the military.

Report me all day long, they can ban me if I over step the rules.  Honestly, I didn't need to say it and you didn't need to answer because it is clear to each individual person what you are to them.  Your comments as observed by me are one thing, to you they have another meaning, and to someone else another.

These made up issues aren't going to convince an undecided voter, you'd be better off explaining why McCain's plan's are better.  Don't stoop to the level of a politician.

(BTW, I know I do it to, but I don't say I work for a campaign. Plus my candidate is going to win.)



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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Jackson50 said:



1) The Republicans must reinstate a policy of non-interventionism. Our constant meddling in other nation's affairs has earned our nation a tarnished reputation. We must again implement a strategy where military action is only used in cases of self-defense. We must also end our empire. We need to recall our troops from Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, and various other nations. We must end this foolishness of implementing a missile defense shield...especially in Europe.

 

Hell no, stay where you are :O you're boosting the local economy wherever you build your bases. (at least over here :P )

 

But you are correct,  the US goverment lost a lot of it's credibility in the last years, but I wouldn't mind if they'd use their still existing influence for the betther.

 

 



Palins May Owe Tens of Thousands of Dollars in Back Taxes
( http://www.electoral-vote.com/ )

When Sarah Palin accepted John McCain's offer to be his running mate, she probably didn't fully realize what being in the national spotlight meant. For example, your tax returns get to be analyzed in public (for free) by miscellaneous tax experts. Gov. Palin actually lives in Wasilla, a suburb of Anchorage, but the state capital is in Juneau, 500 miles away as the crow flies (assuming they have crows in Alaska). On the many nights she stayed at home, she claimed to have been away from the capital on business and was reimbursed $17,000 by the state for this "travel." Being paid a per diem for staying in your own home is ethically dicey but probably legal since "away on business" is probably defined as "not near your office." However, Palin was also paid $25,000 to reimburse her husband and children for being away from "home" (Juneau) which she did not list as income. A D.C. tax lawyer and two law school professors specializing in tax law have concluded that if the State of Alaska wants to pay the governor to take her family on "business trips" that is its good right, but the money received is taxable income under the internal revenue code and the Palins should have declared it and paid tax on it, which they did not.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Final-Fan said:
So what branch of the military did you join, HG1989?

None so far but likely Army or AF after college for CO rank.  My uncle was a Marine and my sister's dad was on Seal Team 6 with covert operations in Grenada, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Panama, and other spec ops that are still classified Level 5, I think.

edit: My great-grandfather was a CB in the European theater of WWII; my grandfather fought in Korea (that is why I take these jests at me seriously); my father was in the Army Reserve and almost given the green light for Iranian invasion which he said he had about 30 seconds to live upon drop.



halogamer1989 said:
Final-Fan said:
So what branch of the military did you join, HG1989?

None so far but likely Army or AF after college for CO rank.  My uncle was a Marine and my sister's dad was on Seal Team 6 with covert operations in Grenada, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Panama, and other spec ops that are still classified Level 5, I think.

edit: My great-grandfather was a CB in the European theater of WWII; my grandfather fought in Korea (that is why I take these jests at me seriously); my father was in the Army Reserve and almost given the green light for Iranian invasion which he said he had about 30 seconds to live upon drop.

Not much of a family history in the military then, eh?

You're not really that serious about it if you aren't already in ROTC. Get with the program!



Jackson50 said:

I noticed there was mention of a strategy for Republican resurgence. As a Taft Republican, I would like to provide my input on this issue.

1) The Republicans must reinstate a policy of non-interventionism. Our constant meddling in other nation's affairs has earned our nation a tarnished reputation. We must again implement a strategy where military action is only used in cases of self-defense. We must also end our empire. We need to recall our troops from Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, and various other nations. We must end this foolishness of implementing a missile defense shield...especially in Europe.

2) Robert A. Taft once opposed the Nuremberg Trials because they violated the basic principles of American justice. As Republicans, we must be at the forefront of expanding civil liberties and civil rights as we once were. I would advocate the support of gay marriage. This would alienate the religious right...which is a good thing. We must end talk of expanding Guantanamo and secret prisons. We must not advocate denying prisoners the writ of habeas corpus and other such foolishness.

3) We need to again practice fiscal responsibility. If we are going to cut taxes, which we should do, we must also cut spending.

4) We must reinstate the policies of reduced government. During the Bush presidency, government has grown at alarming rates. We passed such foolish legislation as the NCLB Act of 2001.

There are other issues I could address, but those are some of the most pertinent. As it currently stands, the GOP is moving further away from where it once stood. It appears as if I will be voting Libertarian for many more years.

1) Hell yeah!

2) Hell yeah!

3) Hell yeah!

4) This is the only one I partially disagree on.  I think the military is bloated, and am all for say private firms evaluating the efficiency of governments, but state governments have actually become way more bloated than the federal government. 

(I really want to show you some figures on this, but I can't find any off hand.  One of my government textbooks had a really interesting analysis of the growth of federal vs. state governments.  The growth of state governments particularly after Reagan has far outpaced the federal government, which when measured against the total US population growth has shrunk to some degree since a few decades earlier).

 



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It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson