By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Obama... Man Were We All Fooled...

steven787 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

I vote Republican, because the government is great at taking away my financial freedoms, yet they suck at taking away my personal ones.

Sadly, all Republicans did the last 8 years is try and take away both. I still believe that's more to do with personnel then the party philosophy.

I really wish Ron Paul had won the republican ticket, kind of sad that we have gotten to the state as a country, where the only candidate who gets it is considered crazy.

It sucks, that neither party fits my ideology.

I look at it this way.  Which one will be better for me in the short term, long term, and for the country based on recent performance and voting record.  Not speeches, plans, or party ideology; on actions.

 

 

I always think "If our founding father were alive today, who would they vote for?" Both candidates would disgust them, but I think Obama's politics would disgust them more.



Around the Network
akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
By the way, a little background on me.

I am not white, not a Christian, and was born poor. I have a learning disability (I am very dyslexic, and it's why I use the wrong words a lot. Spelling was very hard for me, so I never took the extra effort needed to learn it properly). I now live in a 2,500 square foot home on 14 acres over looking a lake. I drive a Porsche 911 convertible, and have an incredibly loving Girlfriend. I love what I do for a living, and wake up every day excited about life.

I never took a dime of government assistance growing up. I worked my way through collage, and worked 60 hours a week from the age of 23 to about 30 to work my way into where I am now. I was hired at 26K a year, never asked for a raise. I made myself as invaluable to everyone I worked with as I could, and I worked my way up to 120k a year.

Now, here is what I want from my Government....

I live in a 98% white community. Extremely Christian. I date a white woman (I am of Israeli descent). Never, not once, do I feel I could lose my job, my house, my girlfriend, or my life because of who I am. This is not by accident. This is because this country has done everything right to make it this way.

These freedoms people take lightly. They should not be. This is what makes this country the greatest in history. Give me a path to success and let me take the journey down it. I don't expect, or want, a country to provide me with substance off the backs of people born more fortunate. I just want an opportunity to achieve anything I desire.


Congratulations.  I am always impressed with people who overcome adversity and attain whatever it is they desire.

I honestly have no problem with libertarian principles whatsoever, but sometimes people mistakenly label a certain politician's or Congress's actions as libertarian.  A libertarian is essentially for the government interfering with normal social relations as little as possible.  In an economic sense, this would mean not showing favoritism to ANY group.

Democrats tend to show favoritism to the poor, while Republicans tend to show favoritism to the rich.  But Republicans are often considered to be closer to libertarian principles.  This is true to an extent.  Deregulation is in line with libertarian principles, but passing legislation that allows a certain industry to gain an inherent advantage over the market, such as not allowing foreign prescription drug companies to import drugs due to "safety" (another way of saying that domestic prescription drug companies paid the government off once you have analyzed the facts), does not follow libertarian principles because it shows favoritism.

Republicans usually don't stick to libertarian principles even if people claim they do, they often shift the market so that it is disadvantageously in favor of larger companies, which contradicts what a libertarian stands for, government neutrality.

John McCain, for instance, says that we should allow the free market to lower insurance premiums.  That wouldn't be so much of a problem if the government had not already given insurance companies a loaded deck.  They can unreasonably discriminate on who they choose to insure, they can pressure hospitals/doctors into accepting what they want to pay rather than what the hospital/doctor would normally charge, and the policy holder has little to no power in challenging a decision to drop their coverage even if they have been paying premiums for twenty years.  That is completely against libertarian principles.  A free market would be more advantageous to a potential policy holder than it is now.

I am comfortable with a libertarian relaxing of standards on some areas of the market, but I hate it when people try to claim that helping out the "big guy" and hurting the "little guy" is in line with libertarian principles.  That is simply incorrect.

 

 

You know you come across as an elitist right? With this, and your '"potential' equality in our society" comment. If I am only potential equal to you, I guess that makes me less they you in reality? 

Starting life in different places is far different then equality.

I don't have time for a long reply to this, but I will reply to it. I have some comments about medical care, and one thing that would make it very easy to reduce cost by 90%.



TheRealMafoo said:

 

You know you come across as an elitist right? With this, and your '"potential' equality in our society" comment. If I am only potential equal to you, I guess that makes me less they you in reality? 

Starting life in different places is far different then equality.

I don't have time for a long reply to this, but I will reply to it. I have some comments about medical care, and one thing that would make it very easy to reduce cost by 90%.

I am just saying that many people are not as lucky as you OR me.  They just don't have the opportunity to move upwards in society or even go to college simply because their financial situation is too poor.

 

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
 

 

You know you come across as an elitist right? With this, and your '"potential' equality in our society" comment. If I am only potential equal to you, I guess that makes me less they you in reality? 

Starting life in different places is far different then equality.

I don't have time for a long reply to this, but I will reply to it. I have some comments about medical care, and one thing that would make it very easy to reduce cost by 90%.

I am just saying that many people are not as lucky as you OR me.  They just don't have the opportunity to move upwards in society or even go to college simply because their financial situation is too poor.

 

 

 

It’s not luck, I worked very hard to get where I am. If I were to start over 20 times as a very poor child, and worked as hard as I did, I would have been successful every time. That’s not luck, its results.

You also made reference earlier to overcoming adversity. Aside from my Dyslexia, I didn’t have anything to overcome. I went to school like you, went to college like you, and then entered the work force like you will. If I wanted to go to law school, I am sure I could have been sitting in the same classroom you sit in. I am sure there are people you go to school with every day that grew up poor. If you asked them what they had to overcome, I would expect them to say “nothing”, or “very little”.

Now there is the extreme minority of Americans that live in such a high crime area that going to school can be dangerous. But that’s the extreme, and it’s also a completely different issue (crime).

The only difference between you and me is how easy it is to get there. Not its availability. That can never be fixed by government. Fat people have it harder then skinny people in life. Ugly compared to good looking. Short compared to tall. I don’t expect, or want, my government to try and solve these problems.



akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

You know you come across as an elitist right? With this, and your '"potential' equality in our society" comment. If I am only potential equal to you, I guess that makes me less they you in reality? 

Starting life in different places is far different then equality.

I don't have time for a long reply to this, but I will reply to it. I have some comments about medical care, and one thing that would make it very easy to reduce cost by 90%.

I am just saying that many people are not as lucky as you OR me.  They just don't have the opportunity to move upwards in society or even go to college simply because their financial situation is too poor.

 Everyone has an oppurtunity to move upwards.  Outside of people with huge physical or mental disabilties.

 



Around the Network
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

You know you come across as an elitist right? With this, and your '"potential' equality in our society" comment. If I am only potential equal to you, I guess that makes me less they you in reality? 

Starting life in different places is far different then equality.

I don't have time for a long reply to this, but I will reply to it. I have some comments about medical care, and one thing that would make it very easy to reduce cost by 90%.

I am just saying that many people are not as lucky as you OR me.  They just don't have the opportunity to move upwards in society or even go to college simply because their financial situation is too poor.

 Everyone has an oppurtunity to move upwards.  Outside of people with huge physical or mental disabilties.

 

 

I'm about to say something.  I don't live this way but I just want to put it out there.

Some people don't want to "move up", some people aren't able to because of intelligence, disability, or a whole life of subpar education, parenting, community support, and bias. They aren't lazy.  They want to work 38-50 hours a week, have a family, and be able to feed, clothe, and shelter there family by putting in a good week.

It's easy (and cool) to say in America, "Why should I pay for their health care?" or "They should pull themselves up."

But the hard working mentality of Americans poorest (as compared to the poor in other industrialized nations) is one of the elements that keeps the oppurtunity to start a business or "move up" alive.

Raising the minimum wage to something like $9/hour and making sure every one can afford medical care is not an outrageous request and it won't kill the country.  If anything by raising minimum wage (slightly like that so it won't cause too much inflation) they will still be in the income range where it is impossible to save and have a family, so it will be good for the economy as they'll be buying more.

I'll finish by saying, again, that standard or living is not just income.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

But Steven, if the U.S. raises minimum wage, McDonalds and Taco Bell will move their part time staff to China to make your fast food there!



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

steven787 said:
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

You know you come across as an elitist right? With this, and your '"potential' equality in our society" comment. If I am only potential equal to you, I guess that makes me less they you in reality? 

Starting life in different places is far different then equality.

I don't have time for a long reply to this, but I will reply to it. I have some comments about medical care, and one thing that would make it very easy to reduce cost by 90%.

I am just saying that many people are not as lucky as you OR me.  They just don't have the opportunity to move upwards in society or even go to college simply because their financial situation is too poor.

 Everyone has an oppurtunity to move upwards.  Outside of people with huge physical or mental disabilties.

 

 

I'm about to say something.  I don't live this way but I just want to put it out there.

Some people don't want to "move up", some people aren't able to because of intelligence, disability, or a whole life of subpar education, parenting, community support, and bias. They aren't lazy.  They want to work 38-50 hours a week, have a family, and be able to feed, clothe, and shelter there family by putting in a good week.

It's easy (and cool) to say in America, "Why should I pay for their health care?" or "They should pull themselves up."

But the hard working mentality of Americans poorest (as compared to the poor in other industrialized nations) is one of the elements that keeps the oppurtunity to start a business or "move up" alive.

Raising the minimum wage to something like $9/hour and making sure every one can afford medical care is not an outrageous request and it won't kill the country.  If anything by raising minimum wage (slightly like that so it won't cause too much inflation) they will still be in the income range where it is impossible to save and have a family, so it will be good for the economy as they'll be buying more.

I'll finish by saying, again, that standard or living is not just income.

Raising the minmium wage to $9 an hour would just raise the price of everything by about the same amount the minimium wage was raised.

That's not slight enough... since in big companies a dollar an hour REALLY adds up. 

You also don't really seem to grasp my point.  As I said I'm for Government run healthcare or a similar option.

The options people like Obama talk about though aren't good ones.  They're worse then what we have now.  Treating health insurance like car insurance.  Fining people if they don't have the insurance when they're sick. 

Give me a full non-insurance tax run program... rather then a plan that's going to make things worse.

However said program should be taken from the people equally, treating everyone the same.  By a broad flat tax of some kind.(accounting for cost of living adjusted by county.) 

Treating people equally.



Kasz216 said:
steven787 said:
Kasz216 said:
akuma587 said:
TheRealMafoo said:

 

You know you come across as an elitist right? With this, and your '"potential' equality in our society" comment. If I am only potential equal to you, I guess that makes me less they you in reality? 

Starting life in different places is far different then equality.

I don't have time for a long reply to this, but I will reply to it. I have some comments about medical care, and one thing that would make it very easy to reduce cost by 90%.

I am just saying that many people are not as lucky as you OR me.  They just don't have the opportunity to move upwards in society or even go to college simply because their financial situation is too poor.

 Everyone has an oppurtunity to move upwards.  Outside of people with huge physical or mental disabilties.

 

 

I'm about to say something.  I don't live this way but I just want to put it out there.

Some people don't want to "move up", some people aren't able to because of intelligence, disability, or a whole life of subpar education, parenting, community support, and bias. They aren't lazy.  They want to work 38-50 hours a week, have a family, and be able to feed, clothe, and shelter there family by putting in a good week.

It's easy (and cool) to say in America, "Why should I pay for their health care?" or "They should pull themselves up."

But the hard working mentality of Americans poorest (as compared to the poor in other industrialized nations) is one of the elements that keeps the oppurtunity to start a business or "move up" alive.

Raising the minimum wage to something like $9/hour and making sure every one can afford medical care is not an outrageous request and it won't kill the country.  If anything by raising minimum wage (slightly like that so it won't cause too much inflation) they will still be in the income range where it is impossible to save and have a family, so it will be good for the economy as they'll be buying more.

I'll finish by saying, again, that standard or living is not just income.

Raising the minmium wage to $9 an hour would just raise the price of everything by about the same amount the minimium wage was raised.

That's not slight enough... since in big companies a dollar an hour REALLY adds up. 

You also don't really seem to grasp my point.  As I said I'm for Government run healthcare or a similar option.

The options people like Obama talk about though aren't good ones.  They're worse then what we have now.  Treating health insurance like car insurance.  Fining people if they don't have the insurance when they're sick. 

Give me a full non-insurance tax run program... rather then a plan that's going to make things worse.

However said program should be taken from the people equally, treating everyone the same.  By a broad flat tax of some kind.(accounting for cost of living adjusted by county.) 

Treating people equally.

 

That's just not true.  The bottom 5% will not cause inflation at the same rate of their wage increase.

If everybody received an increase, then inflation would grow close to the same rate but still noot equal because some people would be saving more or investing in resources abroad (basically removing the money from circulation).

Flat tax would be disasterous.

Minimum ~13520 - 15% = 11492/yr or 221/wk or 957/month before taking out social security.

$20,000 - 15%= 17000/yr or 326/wk, 1416/month.

$50,000 - 15%= 42500/yr or 817 wk or 3541/month.

What happens then.   Two things are possible, 1) government doesn't have enough money or 2) the poor can't afford to live.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Guys...leave the op alone. Most people on this site are ridiculously biased democrats. It's hypocricy to gang up on a republican leaning individual when he was open-minded about Obama to begin with. Allow a little variety in the political debate or else it becomes a dictatorship with only one candidate to choose from.