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Forums - General - Obama... Man Were We All Fooled...

TheRealMafoo said:
steven787 said:

Here are some reasons why neither party supports that.  ("life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" from the Declaration of Independence which is not a legal document in the US anyway)

Life:

Republicans: War and Death Penalty

Democrats: Abortion and Death Penalty

 

Liberty:

Republicans: Disregard for privacy and jurisprudence, supporting censorship in all media.

Democrats: Supporting censorship in some forms of media.

 

"Pursuit of Happiness" (Traditionally property from Locke's work)

Republicans: Devalue your money by spending running huge defecits.  This is why prices shot up and home prices collapsed (when a bank has a loan out and money is worth less, than they lose money because the interest rate is lower than real world inflation)

Democrats: Raise corporate taxes (raising retail prices) and taxes on the rich.

 

Neither party is innocent.

 

I am not a member of either party, I am a Libertarian.

 

I was too! Until last week.  I'm a registered Dem as soon as I get my new Voter's registration card.  (I still usally voted Dem).

Neither party is anywhere close to Libertarian and there are several reasons why I changed.

1. Pragmatism.  Ideology is great, but Libertarianism doesn't really benefit me.  Libertarian Utopia will never happen because people like and do screw eachother over too much.

2. Republicans are scary with all their war and market interference in a bad way.

3. Democrats will reduce the deficit (by breaking campaign promises, but it's for the best), work on fixing medical care, market interference in a good way, energy, environment, abortion, gay rights, etc. etc. etc.

4. Tired of being a young non-comformer, comforming by trying to be a non-comformer who comforms with non-comformity.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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akuma587 said:
Coca-Cola said:
akuma587 said:
This thread is so far off topic...but I guess bigjon really didn't give us much of a topic to begin with.

 

It's funny how we have the same concerns but different conclusions.

i think Republicans and especially the christians care more about the poor in this country than the democrats.  democrats use them for votes by telling them that they will get free money if democrats are in power.

crazy isn't it?  Oh well, I hope we are both right and whoever wins the election will do their best to fix this country.

Notice how you put Christians and Democrats into two different groups...I for instance am a Christian and a Democrat.

I was merely putting all your posts together.  You did mention how you are surprised by Christian Republicans. . . so don't make an issue of it. 

Good for you that you are a Christian and a Democrat.  I'm a Christian and an Independant. 

My point was to say that both democrats and republicans want to help the poor in this country.  I believe more in Republican's message.  I think democrats use the poor for the votes and this free money keeps them dependent.

I'm sure you disagree, and that's where I think is funny - how we can disagree but have same concerns.

 



Username2324 said:
I hope you all know that Obama is only the democratic nominee because he is African-American, just like Hillary only had a chance because she was a woman. I don't mean to sound racist or sexist but it's true. This is election isn't even about the politics, Democrats just want the black vote, and the votes from the idiots who say "Oh he's black I will vote for him", and it's not just the Democrats, Palin was only picked up so that the republicans could snag some Hillary supporters and all the feminists out there.

Just think about it, we will either have the first black president or the first female vice president, neither party is concerned with their abilities, they will just do whatever they can to secure more votes.

So it had nothing to do with his speaking ability, his "fresh face", his Columbia/Harvard education, his entire adult life in public service, his family values, his intelligence, his ideas and presentation, his superior organization getting out the youth vote.

Glad to know it was so simple, not as complicated as I thought.

 



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

TheRealMafoo said:
By the way, a little background on me.

I am not white, not a Christian, and was born poor. I have a learning disability (I am very dyslexic, and it's why I use the wrong words a lot. Spelling was very hard for me, so I never took the extra effort needed to learn it properly). I now live in a 2,500 square foot home on 14 acres over looking a lake. I drive a Porsche 911 convertible, and have an incredibly loving Girlfriend. I love what I do for a living, and wake up every day excited about life.

I never took a dime of government assistance growing up. I worked my way through collage, and worked 60 hours a week from the age of 23 to about 30 to work my way into where I am now. I was hired at 26K a year, never asked for a raise. I made myself as invaluable to everyone I worked with as I could, and I worked my way up to 120k a year.

Now, here is what I want from my Government....

I live in a 98% white community. Extremely Christian. I date a white woman (I am of Israeli descent). Never, not once, do I feel I could lose my job, my house, my girlfriend, or my life because of who I am. This is not by accident. This is because this country has done everything right to make it this way.

These freedoms people take lightly. They should not be. This is what makes this country the greatest in history. Give me a path to success and let me take the journey down it. I don't expect, or want, a country to provide me with substance off the backs of people born more fortunate. I just want an opportunity to achieve anything I desire.


Good story.  Mine is not as exciting as yours.

Immigrant from S. Korea - straight C's in high school.  My family was poor so I started working at a retail store at age 12.

Worked hard and at age 25, saved enough money to buy a little Mom and Pop store in Long Beach, Ca.

I also went to Seminary, ordained 14 years ago, lead a small church, taught at a Middle School, and now I'm planning to open up a internet based music instrument business.  

What a great country.

 



steven787 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
steven787 said:

Here are some reasons why neither party supports that.  ("life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" from the Declaration of Independence which is not a legal document in the US anyway)

Life:

Republicans: War and Death Penalty

Democrats: Abortion and Death Penalty

 

Liberty:

Republicans: Disregard for privacy and jurisprudence, supporting censorship in all media.

Democrats: Supporting censorship in some forms of media.

 

"Pursuit of Happiness" (Traditionally property from Locke's work)

Republicans: Devalue your money by spending running huge defecits.  This is why prices shot up and home prices collapsed (when a bank has a loan out and money is worth less, than they lose money because the interest rate is lower than real world inflation)

Democrats: Raise corporate taxes (raising retail prices) and taxes on the rich.

 

Neither party is innocent.

 

I am not a member of either party, I am a Libertarian.

 

I was too! Until last week.  I'm a registered Dem as soon as I get my new Voter's registration card.  (I still usally voted Dem).

Neither party is anywhere close to Libertarian and there are several reasons why I changed.

1. Pragmatism.  Ideology is great, but Libertarianism doesn't really benefit me.  Libertarian Utopia will never happen because people like and do screw eachother over too much.

2. Republicans are scary with all their war and market interference in a bad way.

3. Democrats will reduce the deficit (by breaking campaign promises, but it's for the best), work on fixing medical care, market interference in a good way, energy, environment, abortion, gay rights, etc. etc. etc.

4. Tired of being a young non-comformer, comforming by trying to be a non-comformer who comforms with non-comformity.

 

I vote Republican, because the government is great at taking away my financial freedoms, yet they suck at taking away my personal ones.

Sadly, all Republicans did the last 8 years is try and take away both. I still believe that's more to do with personnel then the party philosophy.

I really wish Ron Paul had won the republican ticket, kind of sad that we have gotten to the state as a country, where the only candidate who gets it is considered crazy.



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I think some of you are confusing Libertarian and libertarian. You should only use Libertarian when you are referring to the Libertarian Party. If you are referring to your ideology, you should use libertarian. It may seem like a minimal matter, but it makes a big difference to the few of us who know the difference.



TheRealMafoo said:
By the way, a little background on me.

I am not white, not a Christian, and was born poor. I have a learning disability (I am very dyslexic, and it's why I use the wrong words a lot. Spelling was very hard for me, so I never took the extra effort needed to learn it properly). I now live in a 2,500 square foot home on 14 acres over looking a lake. I drive a Porsche 911 convertible, and have an incredibly loving Girlfriend. I love what I do for a living, and wake up every day excited about life.

I never took a dime of government assistance growing up. I worked my way through collage, and worked 60 hours a week from the age of 23 to about 30 to work my way into where I am now. I was hired at 26K a year, never asked for a raise. I made myself as invaluable to everyone I worked with as I could, and I worked my way up to 120k a year.

Now, here is what I want from my Government....

I live in a 98% white community. Extremely Christian. I date a white woman (I am of Israeli descent). Never, not once, do I feel I could lose my job, my house, my girlfriend, or my life because of who I am. This is not by accident. This is because this country has done everything right to make it this way.

These freedoms people take lightly. They should not be. This is what makes this country the greatest in history. Give me a path to success and let me take the journey down it. I don't expect, or want, a country to provide me with substance off the backs of people born more fortunate. I just want an opportunity to achieve anything I desire.


Congratulations.  I am always impressed with people who overcome adversity and attain whatever it is they desire.

I honestly have no problem with libertarian principles whatsoever, but sometimes people mistakenly label a certain politician's or Congress's actions as libertarian.  A libertarian is essentially for the government interfering with normal social relations as little as possible.  In an economic sense, this would mean not showing favoritism to ANY group.

Democrats tend to show favoritism to the poor, while Republicans tend to show favoritism to the rich.  But Republicans are often considered to be closer to libertarian principles.  This is true to an extent.  Deregulation is in line with libertarian principles, but passing legislation that allows a certain industry to gain an inherent advantage over the market, such as not allowing foreign prescription drug companies to import drugs due to "safety" (another way of saying that domestic prescription drug companies paid the government off once you have analyzed the facts), does not follow libertarian principles because it shows favoritism.

Republicans usually don't stick to libertarian principles even if people claim they do, they often shift the market so that it is disadvantageously in favor of larger companies, which contradicts what a libertarian stands for, government neutrality.

John McCain, for instance, says that we should allow the free market to lower insurance premiums.  That wouldn't be so much of a problem if the government had not already given insurance companies a loaded deck.  They can unreasonably discriminate on who they choose to insure, they can pressure hospitals/doctors into accepting what they want to pay rather than what the hospital/doctor would normally charge, and the policy holder has little to no power in challenging a decision to drop their coverage even if they have been paying premiums for twenty years.  That is completely against libertarian principles.  A free market would be more advantageous to a potential policy holder than it is now.

I am comfortable with a libertarian relaxing of standards on some areas of the market, but I hate it when people try to claim that helping out the "big guy" and hurting the "little guy" is in line with libertarian principles.  That is simply incorrect.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

TheRealMafoo said:

 

I vote Republican, because the government is great at taking away my financial freedoms, yet they suck at taking away my personal ones.

Sadly, all Republicans did the last 8 years is try and take away both. I still believe that's more to do with personnel then the party philosophy.

I really wish Ron Paul had won the republican ticket, kind of sad that we have gotten to the state as a country, where the only candidate who gets it is considered crazy.

It sucks, that neither party fits my ideology.

I look at it this way.  Which one will be better for me in the short term, long term, and for the country based on recent performance and voting record.  Not speeches, plans, or party ideology; on actions.

 



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

steven787 said:
Fairness? Do you know why the richest people really vote Democrat and for higher taxes on themselves?

Because they are smart enough to know that they are rich because of this country's oppurtunities and productive citizens.

They support more social programs because they know that poor people really CAN'T afford medical care, and they feel that no one should be denied it.

They are against the Iraq war because they know it is a waste of money, that oil won't even be an issue in 50 years, that an Iraqi life is just as valuable an American one.

Just because someone made or makes money doesn't mean that they don't care about people or want to deny others from making money.

That's the whole problem I have with Republicans. It's not about free trade or fairness for them, it's about keeping other people from competing or even enjoying their rights. You see it in their medical legislation, in their spending, in their energy policy(drill drill drill and nucular), in their votes for allocation of representatives, in their positions on "security" (i.e. privacy and civil liberties), marriage, education, funding religious groups (that they approve). They want to exclude people who don't live the way that they live.

Now, I'll look at it pragmatically.
If you make under 150k per year, your taxes will decrease and government benefits increase.
If you make over 150k per year, the future work force will have better skills and health standards increasing your standard of living.

Standard of living is not all about net income.

So your not answering the question.  Why don't these people just donate the extra money they should be paying in taxes to charity.  Or even to the government.  You can pay more taxes then you need to.  Nothing stopping you... or anyone tht rich.

Why instead take money away from charities that others see as more efficent.

Why don't they put there money where there mouth is?



Interestingly when it comes to Charity.

It seems like Barak Obama gives a lot to Charity.... now that he's running for president. But didn't when he wasn't running for president.... a lot of it to his church (which as stated some disagree as charity.)

While Biden really doesn't give anything to charity.

http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/insight-into-candidates-through-their-gifts-to-charity/

John McCain gave 29% of his income to charity... though it'd be interesting to see how much his wife gives. It's easy to give away money when your