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Forums - General - Sarah Palin FTW!!!

The Bible has separate punishments for causing a pregnant woman to miscarry, for killing an infant, killing somebody 3 years old but not adult yet, and for killing adults.



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Paul said:
Retrasado said:
akuma587 said:

There is a consensus about murdering people, about stealing things, and about attacking other people.  No one is debating the issue.  Those things are illegal because over 95% of the country believes they should be illegal.

Here is a poll on abortion taken a few days ago for comparison:

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?

Pro-Choice      Pro-Life        Unsure about terms          Neither/Unsure

53%                   44%         2%                                     2%

A majority of the country thinks abortion should be legal. 

Where in the Bible does it say that aborting a child is murder?  I am not saying the Bible condones abortion, but there is a legitimate debate over when a fetus is actually alive.

I can easily find you a place in the Bible where it will tell you that judging others will make your judgment even harsher.

Please, don't compare people saying murder should be illegal to people saying abortion should be illegal or you are just ignoring the facts of how Americans actually feel.

Wait a minute. You think that if a majority of the country believes murder or stealing is ok, it should be legal?

Also, if you want to bring the Bible into this discussion, try this verse on for size:

Exodus 21:22 (KJV) 
    If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

I'd say that God did care about fetuses....

 

Isn't there a verse in the bible about a fellow spilling his seed and god did him in with lightning or some such god like thing?

I spill my seed all over the place and even though I've been through many thunderstorms, god has missed me every time.

 

 

 

lol. Well, you aren't spilling your seed so that you can have kids to your name in the afterlife, are you?

(for the benefit of those who aren;t familiar with the passage) In the Old testament, if your married older brother died childless, you were supposed to take his wife and have kids so the older brother would get kiddies to his credit in the afterlife. What happened here was the oldest brother died and the younger brother didn't want to give his brother kiddies in the afterlife, so he "pulled out" of the arrangement so he could have kids of his own in the afterlife. and God killed him.



Not trying to be a fanboy. Of course, it's hard when you own the best console eve... dang it

The Ghost of RubangB said:
The Bible has separate punishments for causing a pregnant woman to miscarry, for killing an infant, killing somebody 3 years old but not adult yet, and for killing adults.

 

And look what happened to poor Onan when he pulled out and blew his load on the rug. God killed him, really nice that god fellow is, really nice.



Retrasado said:
akuma587 said:
Retrasado said:
Well, regardless of her rhetoric, it was a helluva speech. And much better imho than anything at the DNC. I was already leaning toward McCain because his tax plan will have less of an effect on my wallet, and her speech definitely didn't push me away from the repubs. I just hate big government and high taxes and that's all the dems have to offer this time around.

Have you actually looked at what taxes Obama plans to raise?  Unless you are making over $200,000 a year, your taxes will not be raised.  You are buying into the Republican rhetoric.  Check the facts for yourself.

ok, let's try looking a few Obama tax stats:

From Wikipedia (note that neither figure is actually cited so I don't know for sure if this is accurate or not)

Obama has proposed a tax plan which includes an $80 billion tax cut for poor and middle-class families and repeal the tax cuts for the richest one percent of taxpayers. His tax plan calls for billions in breaks by nixing income taxes for the 7 million senior citizens making less than $50,000 a year, establishing a universal credit for the 10 million homeowners who do not itemize their deductions -- most of whom make less than $50,000 annually -- and providing 150 million Americans with tax cuts of up to $1,000. Persons making at least $250,000 or more would pay payroll tax on their entire income, as opposed to the first $102,000[51][52] and would see their capital gains tax increase from 15% to 20-28%. [53] Obama spoke out in June 2006 against making recent, temporary estate tax cuts permanent, calling the cuts a "Paris Hilton" tax break for "billionaire heirs and heiresses."[54] Speaking in November 2006 to members of Wake Up Wal-Mart, a union-backed campaign group, Obama said: "You need to pay your workers enough that they can actually not only shop at Wal-Mart, but ultimately send their kids to college and save for retirement." His tax plan would bring in an additional $700 billion in taxes over the next 10 years.

Here's my reasoning: Obama wants to cut taxes by $80 billion dollars per year (at least, I assume "per year" is implied here) and at the same time, he will put $700 billion additional dollars into the coffers over the next ten years. Now, look at it again, he's cutting $80 billion in taxes per year, and only adding $70 billion per year. So, if he's elected, we start with a $10 billion increase in deficit spending. Next, we add in his huge national healthcare overhall, his subsidies for renewable energy, his big increases in NASA's budget, and a few other perks. The question is, where is he going to get the money to pay for all this stuff if he's starts out by increasing the budget deficit by $10 billion per year? Answer: My wallet.

 

 

 

That bold number says an additional $700 billion compared to what we are currently projected to make, meaning that it has already subtracted the difference of the tax cuts being added and subtracted.  Your reasoning is incorrect, but feel free to verify with numbers somewhere else.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Retrasado said:
Paul said:
Retrasado said:
akuma587 said:

There is a consensus about murdering people, about stealing things, and about attacking other people.  No one is debating the issue.  Those things are illegal because over 95% of the country believes they should be illegal.

Here is a poll on abortion taken a few days ago for comparison:

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?

Pro-Choice      Pro-Life        Unsure about terms          Neither/Unsure

53%                   44%         2%                                     2%

A majority of the country thinks abortion should be legal. 

Where in the Bible does it say that aborting a child is murder?  I am not saying the Bible condones abortion, but there is a legitimate debate over when a fetus is actually alive.

I can easily find you a place in the Bible where it will tell you that judging others will make your judgment even harsher.

Please, don't compare people saying murder should be illegal to people saying abortion should be illegal or you are just ignoring the facts of how Americans actually feel.

Wait a minute. You think that if a majority of the country believes murder or stealing is ok, it should be legal?

Also, if you want to bring the Bible into this discussion, try this verse on for size:

Exodus 21:22 (KJV) 
    If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

I'd say that God did care about fetuses....

 

Isn't there a verse in the bible about a fellow spilling his seed and god did him in with lightning or some such god like thing?

I spill my seed all over the place and even though I've been through many thunderstorms, god has missed me every time.

 

 

 

lol. Well, you aren't spilling your seed so that you can have kids to your name in the afterlife, are you?

(for the benefit of those who aren;t familiar with the passage) In the Old testament, if your married older brother died childless, you were supposed to take his wife and have kids so the older brother would get kiddies to his credit in the afterlife. What happened here was the oldest brother died and the younger brother didn't want to give his brother kiddies in the afterlife, so he "pulled out" of the arrangement so he could have kids of his own in the afterlife. and God killed him.

Isn't there another verse in there about when a women gets raped and she doesn't cry out for help the village people should gather and stone her or something like that? Or if you rape someone you can pay her dad off with some silver and you get to keep her? Am I making this stuff up?

 



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Trying to apply all the wacky Old Testament rules to a modern day setting is an exercise in futility.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:

Trying to apply all the wacky Old Testament rules to a modern day setting is an exercise in futility.

But it's so much fun :(

And it's usually the wack jobs like Palin who are the ones that pull out the bible to justify their actions and beliefs.

 



appolose said:

 

@ bold

Actually, that's the point I'm making; that's what your method would inevitably lead to.

And I'm not saying the Bible is a legal document, I was just pointing out the inconsistencies that can arise between what Obama says and the Bible says (and whatever else I had been saying).

Any Christian who believes everything in the Bible believes that pi is 3.00, that every animal on earth (including every parasite, and every insect species we have YET to discover) fit onto one boat, that people can live for over 700 years, and that demons constantly infect people.

So if Obama doesn't believe in all those things he is not a good Christian?  Your inconsistencies are greater than mine.  The point is that a person's Christian beliefs and their social policy do not have to be the same, and probably shouldn't be.  They should follow social policies that they think are best for the country, not just themselves.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson



I did not say you could not be a Christian if you did not obey everything in the Bible.



I know, you said:



You really cannot totally believe the Bible and be a liberal.



Which I responded to explaining how politics and religion are different, and explained how neither party fits into Christianity.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

akuma587 said:
appolose said:
 

 

@ bold

Actually, that's the point I'm making; that's what your method would inevitably lead to.

And I'm not saying the Bible is a legal document, I was just pointing out the inconsistencies that can arise between what Obama says and the Bible says (and whatever else I had been saying).

Any Christian who believes everything in the Bible believes that pi is 3.00, that every animal on earth (including every parasite, and every insect species we have YET to discover) fit onto one boat, that people can live for over 700 years, and that demons constantly infect people.

So if Obama doesn't believe in all those things he is not a good Christian?  Your inconsistencies are greater than mine.  The point is that a person's Christian beliefs and their social policy do not have to be the same, and probably shouldn't be.  They should follow social policies that they think are best for the country, not just themselves.

 

The guy has a Jesus riding a dinosaur avatar, this is an argument you aren't going to win. The world is only 5000 years old you know.