By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Iraq War is a "task that is from god" - Guess who?

steven787 said:
@Jackson50: We are talking about religion being used to justify the invasion of another country and the deaths of innocent people (civilians and soldiers) on both sides.

 

That is not exactly how she said it. She "urged students to pray “that our leaders -- that our national leaders -- are sending [soldiers] out on a task that is from God.”

She added, “That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for: that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan.”

That seems to indicate a prayer for God's favor. It is more congruous with "God's will be done" as opposed to "God wills it."



Around the Network

It sounds a lot more to me like she is asking people to pray that it is the right course rather than declaring that it is. Sort of like saying "I pray we are doing the right thing."

Either way I'm trying to figure out why it is a problem for her to speak about this type of thing...at a church..? I was kind of under the impression that it was a given that you were allowed to speak of your convictions of faith at church...is that so crazy?

The real question I have from all of this is whether or not people are going to stop trying to smear Palin before there is a backlash from the voters....at this point my guess is on a "no". 

As an anecdote I talked to my mom today and we discussed a bit of politics and let me tell you that my mom isn't exactly the type of person to curse and get spitting mad...well she is beyond pissed off at the way Palin has been treated.  As another example I saw Susan Estrich (democratic strategist) tonight after the RNC coverage and she was saying that if Palin was a man none of this would be on the table for discussion and that she was hearing from all sorts of woman in the democratic party who were livid at the way she has been attacked and how sexist it has been. Just two stories, but a backlash starts with one or two and grows from there...it will be interesting to see if this one will grow into a full backlash before the smears take hold.



To Each Man, Responsibility
Jackson50 said:
steven787 said:
@Jackson50: We are talking about religion being used to justify the invasion of another country and the deaths of innocent people (civilians and soldiers) on both sides.

 

That is not exactly how she said it. She "urged students to pray “that our leaders -- that our national leaders -- are sending [soldiers] out on a task that is from God.”

She added, “That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for: that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan.”

That seems to indicate a prayer for God's favor. It is more congruous with "God's will be done" as opposed to "God wills it."

 

She believes that the national leaders are sending soldiers out on a task that is planned by god.

 

Explain to me how that can be taken as asking God for favor, it sounds more like she is tell the students to pray that she and the national leaders are correct.

Really, explain it.

Watch the 7 minute video, and explain to me exactly howfar out of context it is being taken.

 

She didn't say: "God's will be done" or "God wills it."



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

steven787 said:

 

She believes that the national leaders are sending soldiers out on a task that is planned by god.

 

Explain to me how that can be taken as asking God for favor, it sounds more like she is tell the students to pray that she and the national leaders are correct.

Really, explain it.

Watch the 7 minute video, and explain to me exactly howfar out of context it is being taken.

 

She didn't say: "God's will be done" or "God wills it."

@Bolded

That is what I got from it.  Which is perfectly fine to me.

 



To Each Man, Responsibility

G-d's gonna make that pipeline. If he earmarks another $27 million to help do it or just casts pipeline-shaped lightning through the Alaskan crust, so be it.



Around the Network
Sqrl said:

It sounds a lot more to me like she is asking people to pray that it is the right course rather than declaring that it is. Sort of like saying "I pray we are doing the right thing."

Either way I'm trying to figure out why it is a problem for her to speak about this type of thing...at a church..? I was kind of under the impression that it was a given that you were allowed to speak of your convictions of faith at church...is that so crazy?

The real question I have from all of this is whether or not people are going to stop trying to smear Palin before there is a backlash from the voters....at this point my guess is on a "no". 

As an anecdote I talked to my mom today and we discussed a bit of politics and let me tell you that my mom isn't exactly the type of person to curse and get spitting mad...well she is beyond pissed off at the way Palin has been treated.  As another example I saw Susan Estrich (democratic strategist) tonight after the RNC coverage and she was saying that if Palin was a man none of this would be on the table for discussion and that she was hearing from all sorts of woman in the democratic party who were livid at the way she has been attacked and how sexist it has been. Just two stories, but a backlash starts with one or two and grows from there...it will be interesting to see if this one will grow into a full backlash before the smears take hold.

 

I am not attacking her because she is a woman.  I can't speak for anyone else.

If the VP-candidate for either party says something this outrageous, no matter if it is popular or not, I will denounce them as someone unfit for office in the United States because of the western tradition that has created a system where the governments are at the service of the people, no matter their background.

There is a big difference between saying "pray that we are on God's course" or "God bless our troops" and "a task that is from God."

Nations waging war on each other is not something righteous, sometimes it is politically necessary but it is not righteous.


Either way, whether you are like me, like the democrats, or like your mother, or an evangelical christian there is no arguing that this has polarized the election.  One of the strongest facets of McCains character was his record of non-partisanship and moderatism; he reverses his years of work by choosing a polarizing figure like Palin.  This is not good for the country.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

steven787 said:
Sqrl said:

It sounds a lot more to me like she is asking people to pray that it is the right course rather than declaring that it is. Sort of like saying "I pray we are doing the right thing."

Either way I'm trying to figure out why it is a problem for her to speak about this type of thing...at a church..? I was kind of under the impression that it was a given that you were allowed to speak of your convictions of faith at church...is that so crazy?

The real question I have from all of this is whether or not people are going to stop trying to smear Palin before there is a backlash from the voters....at this point my guess is on a "no". 

As an anecdote I talked to my mom today and we discussed a bit of politics and let me tell you that my mom isn't exactly the type of person to curse and get spitting mad...well she is beyond pissed off at the way Palin has been treated.  As another example I saw Susan Estrich (democratic strategist) tonight after the RNC coverage and she was saying that if Palin was a man none of this would be on the table for discussion and that she was hearing from all sorts of woman in the democratic party who were livid at the way she has been attacked and how sexist it has been. Just two stories, but a backlash starts with one or two and grows from there...it will be interesting to see if this one will grow into a full backlash before the smears take hold.

 

I am not attacking her because she is a woman.  I can't speak for anyone else.

If the VP-candidate for either party says something this outrageous, no matter if it is popular or not, I will denounce them as someone unfit for office in the United States because of the western tradition that has created a system where the governments are at the service of the people, no matter their background.

There is a big difference between saying "pray that we are on God's course" or "God bless our troops" and "a task that is from God."

Nations waging war on each other is not something righteous, sometimes it is politically necessary but it is not righteous.


Either way, whether you are like me, like the democrats, or like your mother, or an evangelical christian there is no arguing that this has polarized the election.  One of the strongest facets of McCains character was his record of non-partisanship and moderatism; he reverses his years of work by choosing a polarizing figure like Palin.  This is not good for the country.

Sorry, I definitely see how you got that from what I said but I didn't mean to imply that you were...I'm just saying that the more things people attack her for the more it adds to the sense of being ganged up on.  There are a tremendous amount of religious people all across the country and they will see this video and say "So what?".

 

PS - I emailed this off to my mom, curious to see her reaction (she is a bit of a night owl like me).



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:

Sorry, I definitely see how you got that from what I said but I didn't mean to imply that you were...I'm just saying that the more things people attack her for the more it adds to the sense of being ganged up on.  There are a tremendous amount of religious people all across the country and they will see this video and say "So what?".

 

You're right, I'm just so lost right now.

I can't control it.  I can't stand the fact that we might have another looney toon who thinks their drunken visions are God's tasks.

I thought we were done with them.

 

I was so happy, I could have been happy with McCain or Obama (even though I make fun of them, mostly McCain, and supported Hillary in the primary).

McCain is a very smart, level-headed, and respectable person.  Even though I don't agree with him he's a person of reason.

Obama, although inexperienced and a slick talker, is so well versed on political theory and world history that every time I read one of his in-depth world media interviews I am just floor by the depth and thoughtfulness.

Both are amazing people.

 

Honestly, I had a feeling McCain was going to pick a female running mate.  I was hoping that it would be Olympia Snowe.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

I think we've found ourselves in a pickle. If Christians over here are saying that it's god's will to go over there and wage war, and Muslims are over there and syaing that their god is telling them to come over and kill people, and considering the fact that both gods are actually one and the same, just a different guy on LSD/MJ/whatever prophesizing. We reach one of the following, either god has a major problem witht he Multiple-Personality Syndrome, he's an extremely sadistic player of SimReality, or humanity is jsut fucked up and too gullible. And then what about Judaism, they ahve the same god too! Man this is getting too deep for this thread.

Anyways, on a more serious note. I don't like leaders who are religious to such an extent, lack of separation of church and state has only been good for one group of people, if at all, and that is the nation itself.

At the same time I do agree that Palin has been receiving a ridiculous amount of attention, but I do disagree on the fact that it is solely based on the fact that she is a woman, maybe some, but definitly not the majority.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Britain is interesting. Blair is deeply christian but he hid it during his term in office. In a great UK doco he talked about ideological struggles, Islam (in general) as the problem and Iraq as a stepping stone to i guess convert 'bad people' into good.

I wish more countries wouldn't confuse the two things. Even here the prime minister is a 'good' catholic school boy, not that it matters that much politically.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.